The dawn of the SWEDISH civ...

[aaglo]

AHA! But this wouldn't even be an offensive unit
Just dispatch them quickly to places where enemy uses stealth units to attack your cities

 

[Unexisted]

Religous? Isn't there a State Church? We arent describing ourselves Omni?

 

[The Last Conformist]

aaglo: But getting a none-offensive replacement for Cav is getting screwed!

Unexisted: Actually, since a few years back, there is no State Church. But if having or having had a state church is enough to warrant the Religious trait, there wouldn't be alot of non-Religious civs around.

 

[aaminion00]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but were not the Swedish Vikings (in their many expansions Eastward), a very commercial people, doing trade with the nations of Eastern Europe and the Middle East? And isn't Sweden now a fairly prosperous nation? I still say commercial would be good.

Militaristic Commercial

 

[The Last Conformist]

Well, the vikings in the east tended to conduct trade at swordpoint. They were opportunists, combining peaceful trade, forced trade, raiding, and "protection" activities.

Modern Sweden has about the general Western level of prosperity.

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Well, the vikings in the east tended to conduct trade at swordpoint. They were opportunists, combining peaceful trade, forced trade, raiding, and "protection" activities.

, exactly: Militaristic and commercial

 

[Louis XXIV]

The only Sweeden I really know anything about would be the Colonial Period, New Sweeden (near Philladelphia and New Amsterdam), and the Kalmar Nikel (some ship, don't know how to spell it). For that period I would guess Scientific, Seafaring, or something like that.

I do know about Vikings, but pretty much only the name (I've never studied much Viking history, nor do I think of any specific Scandanavian country when Vikings are mentioned).

For a uu, I can't really help

 

[OmniMower]

Great input here guys, and I agree with you all that a Carolean UU would be best, Infantry or Cavalry I dunno...

My suggestions for Scientific Leaders is:
• Alfred Nobel
• Anders Celsius
• Carl von Linné
• Olof Rudbeck
• Gustaf de Laval
• Carl Wilhelm Sheele
• Lars Magnus Ericsson
• Nils Gustav Dalén
• Fredrik Ljungqvist
• Baltzar von Platen

And for the Great Leaders:
• Erik Segersäll
• Olof Skötkonung
• Gustav Vasa
• Axel Oxenstierna
• Carl Gustaf Wrangel
• Gustav Adolf
• Karl XII
• Axel von Fersen
• Karl Bonde
• Karl Johan
• Sten Sture
• Carl Gustaf
• Adolf Fredrik
• Emund den Gamle
• Erik av Pommern
• Magnus Ladulås
• Christoffer av Bayern

... and Louis, its Kalmar Nyckel

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by Mobilize
mrtn: Sweden, that's them that make all those Army Knives and chocolate, right?

Haha.. I bet you were sarcastic but.. didn't the Swiss do all that?

You're right of course...
And if you look at my "Location" you'll see that it is Stockholm, the capital of Sweden.
We Swedes are extremely used to people (mostly Americans) that can't distinguish between Sweden and Switzerland. "It starts with a Sw. Brain shutdown sequence started."

 

[The Last Conformist]

Actually, I can live with the Sweden/Switzerland confusion. What makes me see red is people confusing Sweden and Swaziland!

 

[The Last Conformist]

Erik av Pommern? ("Eric of Pommerania" for the suecianically challenged)

Nothing really wrong with him, really, but I'd rather expected seeing Engelbrekt on the list!

 

[Iztvan]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
I'm all for basing it primarily on the 17th-18th C, and for Mil as one of the traits. And I guess I agree Sci is the best choice for the other.

Carolean Infantry (I'm more used to see it spelt "Caroline" in English, btw) would be cool, but it would pretty much have to be Musketmen, or possible Riflemen, with an offense bonus, which sounds decidedly non-exciting from the gameplay PoV. Carolean Cavalry could work better, only it would need to not duplicate the Cossack, Sipahi, or Hussar. Movement four would be too much, so there's not alot of options left. 7.4.3 at 90 shields, perhaps? Or extra HP?

Well, Cav UU's are nice and good. And you could even argue that it's appropriate for Sweden, hakkapelitas and dragoons etc.

But a Swedish UU could fill a gap in the current Civ upgrade path - the gap between MedInf/Longbow and Guerilla. How about a grenadier or caroliner upgrade, cost 50-60 shields, stats (a/d/m) 6/3/1? It would be competitive with the cav on the offensive and cheeper.

But sure, if you make the mod so that all civs get a grenadier or something at MilTrad, then go ahed and give the swedes a Cav UU. But there are so many already, Cossak, Sipahi (hate it, should be janissary) and hussar (mr Lovalova!). And hasn't Sweden always had kind of a "tough, grunt infantry army" rather than a "flashy cavalier cavalry army"?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Well, Caroline era Swedish cavalry wasn't particularly "flashy", but very good.

There really should be offensive musket era infantry, but I dislike the idea of an UU that's not an upgrade of an preexisting unit; it's out of line with the Firaxis-made civs.

 

[Iztvan]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Well, Caroline era Swedish cavalry wasn't particularly "flashy", but very good.

There really should be offensive musket era infantry, but I dislike the idea of an UU that's not an upgrade of an preexisting unit; it's out of line with the Firaxis-made civs.

Yes and Yes.

MedInf & Longbow -> Grenadier (Miltrad, 6/3/1, 50-60sh) -> Guerilla. That's my proposal. As a UU for sweden or normal upgrade for everyone. If everyone gets it, sweden needs another UU, like a Cav-based UU.

 

[The Last Conformist]

If a such Grenadier was introduced for everyone, the Swedish UU could be an improved version of it; the pefect slot for a Caroline Infantryman.

But the idea here, as far as I understand, is simply to add an additional civ to the mix, not making a global mod correcting the holes in the unit progression.

 

[OmniMower]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
But the idea here, as far as I understand, is simply to add an additional civ to the mix, not making a global mod correcting the holes in the unit progression.

Why not???

 

[The Last Conformist]

No reason why not. I merely, apparently erroneously, was under the impression that was not your intention.

 

[Iztvan]

Why choose?

A straight vanilla Swedish add-on just requires the leaderhead and a UU. ("just" says the guy who never does any graphics! )

Traits: Mil Sci (what about the germans? Mil Ind?)
Leader: G2A.
UU: Karolean Grenadier? Drabant?

Then, why not do a "spiced-up" mod with extra detail, ruleswise & implementing all the nice Swedish units made by fans.

 

[OmniMower]

Thats my intention, to make 2.... one with only one UU and then one with all the fancy stuff. Implements like Ericsson and such...

 

[OmniMower]

oh, and I have a lil problem... there is a gap between the Vikings and the Caroleans regarding soldiers. Did we have any particular units then or just regular Pikemens?

http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?p=33187#33187