The Deity Challenge Line-up #21 - India

I'd just like to say that DiploV IS still possible when only a few CS remain. You have to use nukes to make weak AIs afraid and vote for you, and/or go to repeated votes so you collect new votes every time.
So how many votes do you need at the end? All you can get? Because in my game, there were 6 CS left, and Russia was almost gone. There were NO weak AIs: Ahurbanipal overtook my continent, and Maria Theresa and Sejond overtook theirs.

I am tempted to give replay this map with a Piety/Commerce twist, but I just feel like I will have to go for science or something.
 
I don't remember exactly, and I don't have a save, sadly. All I know is that I had all the CS but there were 10 or less left. All the AIs were still alive, I think, but I had Globalisation + diplomats + Forbidden Palace, etc. All the buffs.

If you check this thread I'm sure a pro will answer your question.
 
Yeah come to think of it, in my only DiploV in this DCL series, having nukes *might* have had something to do with the AIs actually wanting to vote for me if I paid them, because usually they don't even want to consider the option :D

If they see a nuke sitting around in your city, they become INSTANTLY afraid, as I demonstrated with screenies over and over
 
I just checked in the DCL #14 thread and the number of CS had been reduced to 8.

I also noted and remembered that I had to stop working science specialists so I could produce more GMs to keep the alliances that I had. It was really skin of my teeth! :S
 
Once I bought a nuke, all my Friendly statuses went to Neutral, except for Maria who was Afraid. I couldn't bribe her to vote for me. Of course, I was near the bottom in military.
 
there has to be a hidden threshold that determines whether an AI will want to vote for you in the UN. I certainly can't see any clear patterns
 
I'm far from a pro with diplo.

If I remember correctly CSes give you 2 votes and 1 less is required for every destroyed CS.

So if that is right, you originally need 42 votes. If 10 CS are dead you would need 32. If you ally all 6 you have 12 + your base 6 (if leader). That is 18 so you'd need 14 from extra sources. Diplomats would give you what 6 ? FP is 2. So 10 more through bribes, WC bonuses and missed World leader sessions.
 
I'm far from a pro with diplo.

If I remember correctly CSes give you 2 votes and 1 less is required for every destroyed CS.

So if that is right, you originally need 42 votes. If 10 CS are dead you would need 32. If you ally all 6 you have 12 + your base 6 (if leader). That is 18 so you'd need 14 from extra sources. Diplomats would give you what 6 ? FP is 2. So 10 more through bribes, WC bonuses and missed World leader sessions.

You can't destroy CSes, what are you talking about? It seems unfair but if anything CSes could destroy civilizations.
 
Loooool. So I DoW Genghis to steal some workers, and he never makes peace. Ok. Now Shaka wiped him out and moved to my borders while being "friendly" (and I gifted him a luxury). I had to bribe him to go to war with Ashurbanipal. Guess what? Shaka built the Parthenon and founded a religion. The hell?! It's t100 and I just finished Piety with the help of the Oracle. The hell am I supposed to do... this whole strategy hinged on having non-religious neighbor, and now if I dare spread my religion to Shaka, I will get negative diplo modifier, and there is no one near to deflect his rage.
 
Err, you most certainly CAN destroy CSs. You capture them, and they are then YOUR city, and need to be liberated to become a CS again. If an AI captures a CS you lose those votes. The more CS that get captured, the harder DiploV becomes.

And in my game as the Huns some douche who went full Patronage used a gifted MoV to take a CS ally of mine, so I attacked it and razed it to the ground!! HAHA!
 
You can once the CS is no longer a CS (after it has been bought by Venice or married by Austria)

Yeah, or bought by someone who is gifted a MoV. Doesn't have to be only Venice or Austria.
 
I must be lucky cause i got a MoV once (in the germany DCL IIRC) but never saw an AI got one (or at least, use it to buy a CS). Those are great in diplo games as they get double results from normal trade missions.
I also got a Khan once gifted by a CS.
 
Full Patronage gives you all kinds of fun. It's one of the reasons why I like playing CV as Sweden. You go full Tradition and full Patronage, besides the obvious Rationalism and Freedom. You can get ludicrous amounts of GP. No one seems to know this, judging by my discussions about Sweden on the Deity Tier List, where they are placed unbelievably low.
 
No one seems to know this, judging by my discussions about Sweden on the Deity Tier List, where they are placed unbelievably low.
They are placed unbelievably low due to tundra start and no bonuses to support that start. Top tier civs in the Deity Tier List are top tier because, as the author put it, "these civs can accomplish any victory condition with any start." All of them have bonuses which can salvage even very poor starts: Maya, Korea, *cough* Poland *cough*. When you start in tundra with Sweden, you are likely to have low hammers and little food. Unlike Maya, Korea, Poland, Shoshone, Sweden doesn't get early game bonuses of any sort. Generating great people comes in the midgame and take time, even for GG's. And then you are at the mercy of the map: which City-States it gave you. Their UU's come pretty late, too. Poor growth and hammer with no bonuses simply mean difficulty getting SV or CV. That's already not in the category "any victory condition." You know you can just roflstomp with the Shoshone or Babylon, but you can't roflstomp with Sweden.
 
To my mind, Sweden have one of the best early-game bonuses. You can donate your first GG and ally a Cultural CS to plough through Honor, earn lots more GGs, give those to other CS, and snowball your CS influence and warring ability. Tundra bias is not as bad as it seems when you war. It can suck if you want to grow tall cities, but out of the 15 or 20 Sweden maps I've rolled, only a few were unplayably bad. Saying that Caroleans come late depends on your definition. If you beeline Rifles you can have them PDQ!

Sweden are maybe the best all-round civ outside of the undisputed god-tier of 5 (Deity Tier list top 4 plus Inca) IMO. They are great for Full Honor games and pretty good for peaceful. Saying that GP come in the mid game is silly, since that's when you want them, to improve your tourism.

But hey, this is way OT. :S
 
To my mind, Sweden have one of the best early-game bonuses. You can donate your first GG and ally a Cultural CS to plough through Honor, earn lots more GGs, give those to other CS, and snowball your CS influence and warring ability. Tundra bias is not as bad as it seems when you war. It can suck if you want to grow tall cities.
Again, this is NOT the point.

these civs are so amazing that they can win almost any victory condition with almost any start.
The criterion is "almost any victory condition with almost any start," but you keep bringing up Honor and DomV. Brazil is ez mode for CV, but they are not top-tier because they don't really have strong tools for other types of victories.
 
I feel like this "small" Piety strat would work better without Shaka next door. Every time I read "Processing Turn for the Zulus," I shudder:
Shaka has completed Borobudur!
Shaka has completed the Forbidden Palace!
Shaka has found every civilization in the world and founded the World Congress!

I give Shaka 9gpt. I vote for Shaka as the Host. I propose what Shaka would like. I vote for Shaka's proposals. I let Shaka dig my artifacts.

But no. Shaka citadel-bombs me. He covets my lands. He doesn't welcome my religion. He doesn't want to trade. All I need to know is WHY. Shaka, baby, Why Don't You Love Me.
 
I feel like this "small" Piety strat would work better without Shaka next door. Every time I read "Processing Turn for the Zulus," I shudder:
Shaka has completed Borobudur!
Shaka has completed the Forbidden Palace!
Shaka has found every civilization in the world and founded the World Congress!

I give Shaka 9gpt. I vote for Shaka as the Host. I propose what Shaka would like. I vote for Shaka's proposals. I let Shaka dig my artifacts.

But no. Shaka citadel-bombs me. He covets my lands. He doesn't welcome my religion. He doesn't want to trade. All I need to know is WHY. Shaka, baby, Why Don't You Love Me.

If you have shaka next to you it would be best to research and make the best units you can make, preferably crossbowmen and be ready for his attack. As long as you have military and defenses.
 
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