shyuhe
Deity
A monument is 1 
until astronomy, and it's a lot faster to build than a non-creative library.
until astronomy, and it's a lot faster to build than a non-creative library.
The Devil is Six
- Thread starter nocho
- Start date
Ah right, Charismatic, I keep forgetting things today. That means we can get a border pop pretty soon, so I'd either settle 2W1S and pop the border for a couple extra workable tiles, or settle somewhere north/east and hope to capture a western city from the AI later, though with our variant rules, I think that'll take a while.
shyuhe
Deity
I'm fine passing the game on. I think I played close to 10 turns anyways.
Good! I was just planning to post a roster.
Let me do that anyway:
nocho
Ororo
FlyingSwan - MIA
shyuhe - Just played
Sengir - Up
Cam_H - On deck
r_rolo1 - Alert
Btw, shyuhe, anything else worth mentioning from your set? Barb activity, whatever?
I presume we just got the archer built in the cap, I guess it should move to our prospective settling spot to fogbust it.
vranasm
Deity
lurk lurk
didn't surprise me the lost oracle race at all. When I playtested the beginning thinking "muhahaha clear map for Oracle->CS" I got owned around T53 if I remember right...
you were just a little bit more unlucky (or lucky at that? since I had time to get PH :-D)
I abandoned the map in disgust of course
the jungle spot you plan now is nice and all, but what are your plans with stone? when I saw Ororo's report my first thinking was 1SE from stone to get corn in 2nd ring... but you can sneak in (if you go with the jungle spot) some city on the coast 2W of stone.
didn't surprise me the lost oracle race at all
. When I playtested the beginning thinking "muhahaha clear map for Oracle->CS" I got owned around T53 if I remember right...you were just a little bit more unlucky (or lucky at that? since I had time to get PH :-D)
I abandoned the map in disgust of course
the jungle spot you plan now is nice and all, but what are your plans with stone? when I saw Ororo's report my first thinking was 1SE from stone to get corn in 2nd ring... but you can sneak in (if you go with the jungle spot) some city on the coast 2W of stone.
The plan:
Tech:
Pottery > Writing
Followed by Aesthetics or IW I think, depending on how soon we think AI will get to Alpha
Carthage:
Settler > Barracks > Archer (do we want to 2pop whip the settler, or just chop it out?)
Utica:
Monument > Worker (chop); work horse upon growth
Workers:
Carthage worker: chop forest, move/road towards new-city corn, farm corn
Utica worker: Pasture+road horses, chop forest into worker (any preference?), farm
New worker: move north to improve Carthage further.
The Heal me warrior can move to fogbuston the hill 3W1S of the corn. Hmm, he's woodyII so I'll stick him in the jungle somewhere in that neighbourhood.
Tech:
Pottery > Writing
Followed by Aesthetics or IW I think, depending on how soon we think AI will get to Alpha
Carthage:
Settler > Barracks > Archer (do we want to 2pop whip the settler, or just chop it out?)
Utica:
Monument > Worker (chop); work horse upon growth
Workers:
Carthage worker: chop forest, move/road towards new-city corn, farm corn
Utica worker: Pasture+road horses, chop forest into worker (any preference?), farm
New worker: move north to improve Carthage further.
The Heal me warrior can move to fogbust
Self teching IW is almost always a bad play. Aesthetics is a much safer option.
I think we can afford to whip in Carthage while there are no Cottages. However, later on we should avoid whipping at all costs!
Carthage will grow back pretty quickly so be ready to Cottage those riverside grassland tiles once Pottery is in...
I think we can afford to whip in Carthage while there are no Cottages. However, later on we should avoid whipping at all costs!
Carthage will grow back pretty quickly so be ready to Cottage those riverside grassland tiles once Pottery is in...
xposted again...
Plan generally looks good. Some remarks though.
Tech: pottery-writing sounds good. I do think we could use IW rather soon. With our limited number of settlers knowledge of iron is obviously important soonish, more so with the lack of bronze around. Besides we'll want to chop jungle in city 3 (though it's not that urgent yet). With our gems we could afford the detour, more so since we didn't spend beakers on priesthood.
Then again, it might be easily tradeable, so if we go aesthetics anyway to pick up alpha, we can likely pick up IW as well. As you say it depends on how quick the AI will have alpha. Well, we do have archers and chariots so defense wise we can afford to postpone IW a bit. So maybe go aesth first and then we'll see where we stand.
Carthage: I'm not hot about the barracks. Generally when building units a rax is a good idea for the promos, but I think we have more urgent things to build in Carthage. When writing is in it can use a library asap, before it could maybe spit out another worker or even a settler (with some chops). I'm fine with an archer squeezed in, even if it's without promos. If we do go for another settler soon I'd propose going for the spot 2N of cows. I'm fine with a 2-pop whip at some point, as long as we keep on working both gems and corn. I'll leave it up to you but maybe you can do something along the lines of: 2-pop whip settler with max overflow into worker, have a well-timed chop to finish worker nearly instantly, regrow on archer, library, then settler next. Or something.
Utica: monument-worker(chop) sounds okay, especially if we grow to size 2 before starting the worker, so we can whip it soon with the chop. That may be the only whip the city will see in a long time, afterwards I'd farm it and have the hills mined and make it responsible for military output. Hence I'd build the barracks here after the worker and then take care of archers and warriors (!), before we hook up iron somewhere, if we have it
. As I wouldn't whip the city further, it might not even get a granary ever, as obviously we can only build 6 of those. Just have it grow organically through its farms.
New city: monument first, not sure about granary or library next.
Workers: sounds fine. Once we have pottery Carthage can use cottages obviously. Not sure why a tile has been pre-farmed.
EDIT: I'd also like to have the east scouted a bit more for prospective city sites, if possible. With Utica, the corn spot, the cow spot and I guess a city around the northern pigs/gold/horses, we have 2 settlers more to "spend", at least one of which should look for some spot in the east presumeably.
Plan generally looks good. Some remarks though.
Tech: pottery-writing sounds good. I do think we could use IW rather soon. With our limited number of settlers knowledge of iron is obviously important soonish, more so with the lack of bronze around. Besides we'll want to chop jungle in city 3 (though it's not that urgent yet). With our gems we could afford the detour, more so since we didn't spend beakers on priesthood.
Then again, it might be easily tradeable, so if we go aesthetics anyway to pick up alpha, we can likely pick up IW as well. As you say it depends on how quick the AI will have alpha. Well, we do have archers and chariots so defense wise we can afford to postpone IW a bit. So maybe go aesth first and then we'll see where we stand.Carthage: I'm not hot about the barracks. Generally when building units a rax is a good idea for the promos, but I think we have more urgent things to build in Carthage. When writing is in it can use a library asap, before it could maybe spit out another worker or even a settler (with some chops). I'm fine with an archer squeezed in, even if it's without promos. If we do go for another settler soon I'd propose going for the spot 2N of cows. I'm fine with a 2-pop whip at some point, as long as we keep on working both gems and corn. I'll leave it up to you but maybe you can do something along the lines of: 2-pop whip settler with max overflow into worker, have a well-timed chop to finish worker nearly instantly, regrow on archer, library, then settler next. Or something.
Utica: monument-worker(chop) sounds okay, especially if we grow to size 2 before starting the worker, so we can whip it soon with the chop. That may be the only whip the city will see in a long time, afterwards I'd farm it and have the hills mined and make it responsible for military output. Hence I'd build the barracks here after the worker and then take care of archers and warriors (!), before we hook up iron somewhere, if we have it
. As I wouldn't whip the city further, it might not even get a granary ever, as obviously we can only build 6 of those. Just have it grow organically through its farms.New city: monument first, not sure about granary or library next.
Workers: sounds fine. Once we have pottery Carthage can use cottages obviously. Not sure why a tile has been pre-farmed.
EDIT: I'd also like to have the east scouted a bit more for prospective city sites, if possible. With Utica, the corn spot, the cow spot and I guess a city around the northern pigs/gold/horses, we have 2 settlers more to "spend", at least one of which should look for some spot in the east presumeably.
vranasm
Deity
lurker
or you could selftech Alpha... without marble it's reasonable option especially with such high commerce start.
or you could selftech Alpha... without marble it's reasonable option especially with such high commerce start.
With 3 zealots I guess PH was bound to be researched soon so tough luck... Well, you can't always count on the Oracle.lurk lurk
didn't surprise me the lost oracle race at all
you were just a little bit more unlucky (or lucky at that? since I had time to get PH :-D)
I abandoned the map in disgust of course
the jungle spot you plan now is nice and all, but what are your plans with stone? when I saw Ororo's report my first thinking was 1SE from stone to get corn in 2nd ring... but you can sneak in (if you go with the jungle spot) some city on the coast 2W of stone.
I'm not really preoccupied by stone. I think we're not really interested in the mids anyway, as it's many hammers and I think given the variant HR may be a much better civic anyway to make use of all those obsolete units we'll soon have and monarchy is obviously not far away. The other stone is in the 3rd ring of Utica, so we might grab it anyway, though right now I'm not even sure if we'll ever really need it. Well, for Oxford maybe, but that's not a good enough reason to spend one of our precious settlers on I suppose. The problem with 2W of the northern stone is that it's not that great a city (no food) so I guess we just have to pass up on stone for now.
shyuhe
Deity
There was a barb warrior or two wandering around to the north from what I remember. That was it though. Pretty unexciting stuff 
I wouldn't bother with the stone. Stone + dry rice = sucky. There are better spots in the north to burn our settlers on.
Since we have gems, I'd go straight for alphabet here to pick up IW more quickly. We're financial and have double gems so it'll be faster than going to aesthetics and waiting for an AI to pick up alphabet for us. Or we can even go straight for IW if we're feeling aggressive, although I think that's a waste of beakers...
I started building the barracks because we will want to build as many units as possible with promos. We can't afford to lose many fights given our settings so we need every advantage we can get.
I wouldn't bother with the stone. Stone + dry rice = sucky. There are better spots in the north to burn our settlers on.
Since we have gems, I'd go straight for alphabet here to pick up IW more quickly. We're financial and have double gems so it'll be faster than going to aesthetics and waiting for an AI to pick up alphabet for us. Or we can even go straight for IW if we're feeling aggressive, although I think that's a waste of beakers...
I started building the barracks because we will want to build as many units as possible with promos. We can't afford to lose many fights given our settings so we need every advantage we can get.
Ah, didn't realize we already had hammers invested in the barracks. In that case we might as well finish it indeed, though there are other priorities as well.
Straight alpha might be a good idea indeed given the lack of marble and our current research power.
Straight alpha might be a good idea indeed given the lack of marble and our current research power.
Turn 0:
Everything looks fine.
Turn 1:
Saladin adopts HR
Turn 2:
Kill a barb warrior on defense
Turn 3:
Pottery in, Writing next
Whip Settler in Carthage
Turn 4:
Overflow finishes Barracks in Carthage, writing isn't in yet, so I let the Barracks finish.
Turn 5:
Carthage: Barracks > Archer
Turn 6:
Worker start farming corn
Turn 7:
zz
Turn 8:
zz
Turn 9:
Hadrumetum found, starts Monument
Turn 10:
zz
Turn 11:
Writing in, set tech to Alpha as no one has writing yet
Turn 12:
Carthage: Archer > Lib
Two warriors are nearing Carthage, 1 archer at the gates of Hadrumetum
Turn 13:
Barb archer willingly dies at the hands of our defending warrior.
Turn 14:
And the 2 barb warriors are killed by archers
Turn 15:
More barbarians showing up. I'll hand it of here. Both Utica (worker, 3t) and Hadru (monument, 24t) can be whipped. We need a road to Hadrumetum and cottages near the cap. Barbs are coming from the North mostly, though the last archer came from the East. Do we want to fogbust or harvest? I'd say harvest and hope they settle a decent city for us. Getting 10xp on a couple of units the easy way is nice as well.
Also: the archers are unpromoted. I imagine we don't want the standard city defense promo's on them, but give them something usefull when (upgraded and) attacking.
Everything looks fine.
Turn 1:
Saladin adopts HR
Turn 2:
Kill a barb warrior on defense
Turn 3:
Pottery in, Writing next
Whip Settler in Carthage
Turn 4:
Overflow finishes Barracks in Carthage, writing isn't in yet, so I let the Barracks finish.
Turn 5:
Carthage: Barracks > Archer
Turn 6:
Worker start farming corn
Turn 7:
zz
Turn 8:
zz
Turn 9:
Hadrumetum found, starts Monument
Turn 10:
zz
Turn 11:
Writing in, set tech to Alpha as no one has writing yet
Turn 12:
Carthage: Archer > Lib
Two warriors are nearing Carthage, 1 archer at the gates of Hadrumetum
Turn 13:
Barb archer willingly dies at the hands of our defending warrior.
Turn 14:
And the 2 barb warriors are killed by archers
Turn 15:
More barbarians showing up. I'll hand it of here. Both Utica (worker, 3t) and Hadru (monument, 24t) can be whipped. We need a road to Hadrumetum and cottages near the cap. Barbs are coming from the North mostly, though the last archer came from the East. Do we want to fogbust or harvest? I'd say harvest and hope they settle a decent city for us. Getting 10xp on a couple of units the easy way is nice as well.
Also: the archers are unpromoted. I imagine we don't want the standard city defense promo's on them, but give them something usefull when (upgraded and) attacking.
Ok checked the save.
In overall things are looking pretty good.
However, there are some areas that we might want to improve in:
1) Workers. This is an obvious one. We are very low on workers (only 2 for 3 cities, 3rd is being produced in Utica) and our cities therefore lack tile improvements. Imo we should also focus more on a short term benefit as far as worker turns are concerned - why is the worker building a farm near Utica? The city won't be able to grow for at least 3 more turns whereas our capital could immediately benefit from at least 2 cottages...
2) Barb defenses. We will need an Archer in Hadrametum. RNG can screw us over if we defend with just warrior against Barb Archers.
3) Espionage. We should focus it on someone so it gives us at least some information. There is no way to outspend AIs with they're difficulty bonuses especially if they decide to spend large portion of their EPs against us.
4) Open Borders. We should probably sign OB with more civs. The only exception is perhaps Nappy. (worst enemy of Churchill and Willem).
5) Great people. We are not PHI so we'll not get or Great Scientist super early but should start planning about making one for the Academy in Capital. I've already mentioned that Hadrametum is a good city for this. Ideally we'll have pre-AD Burreau capital with an Academy and a couple of grown cottages.
6) Expansion. Where to put our next city?
That's it for today. I'm tired and I probably missed something. I'll check the save once again tomorrow.
In overall things are looking pretty good.
However, there are some areas that we might want to improve in:
1) Workers. This is an obvious one. We are very low on workers (only 2 for 3 cities, 3rd is being produced in Utica) and our cities therefore lack tile improvements. Imo we should also focus more on a short term benefit as far as worker turns are concerned - why is the worker building a farm near Utica? The city won't be able to grow for at least 3 more turns whereas our capital could immediately benefit from at least 2 cottages...
2) Barb defenses. We will need an Archer in Hadrametum. RNG can screw us over if we defend with just warrior against Barb Archers.
3) Espionage. We should focus it on someone so it gives us at least some information. There is no way to outspend AIs with they're difficulty bonuses especially if they decide to spend large portion of their EPs against us.
4) Open Borders. We should probably sign OB with more civs. The only exception is perhaps Nappy. (worst enemy of Churchill and Willem).
5) Great people. We are not PHI so we'll not get or Great Scientist super early but should start planning about making one for the Academy in Capital. I've already mentioned that Hadrametum is a good city for this. Ideally we'll have pre-AD Burreau capital with an Academy and a couple of grown cottages.
6) Expansion. Where to put our next city?
That's it for today. I'm tired and I probably missed something. I'll check the save once again tomorrow.
Thanks for the set Sengir, looks good.
Ororo brings up good points, I'll let them sink in for the night and comment later when my head is clearer.
Just wanted to say for now that unlike what I said before I think we shouldn't whip the worker in Utica. It's just 3 turns to finish while we'll lose 8 turns to grow back losing hammers from horse not being worked during that time, which isn't really compensated by the overflow, I think. It's just not a good city for whipping. I think it should chop the 2 eastern hills into a barracks asap and then spit out some archers/chariots. The Hadru monument otoh should be whipped immediately, possibly followed by a library.
Ororo brings up good points, I'll let them sink in for the night and comment later when my head is clearer.
Just wanted to say for now that unlike what I said before I think we shouldn't whip the worker in Utica. It's just 3 turns to finish while we'll lose 8 turns to grow back losing hammers from horse not being worked during that time, which isn't really compensated by the overflow, I think. It's just not a good city for whipping. I think it should chop the 2 eastern hills into a barracks asap and then spit out some archers/chariots. The Hadru monument otoh should be whipped immediately, possibly followed by a library.
Thanks Sengir. OK ... I've got it.
A very quick glance only, and two quick points:
I'll aim to do a PPP within 24 hours, but always willing to hear more views on the game.
A very quick glance only, and two quick points:
1. I think we desperately need two more cities. One on the western coast for the triple split, and the other to the east as a blocker. I think these land-grabbing Settlers would have to take priority over Workers.
2. We can run binary for a bit while we get our Library up, which means that I don't have to worry about tech' paths, as I probably won't get past Alphabet.
2. We can run binary for a bit while we get our Library up, which means that I don't have to worry about tech' paths, as I probably won't get past Alphabet.
I'll aim to do a PPP within 24 hours, but always willing to hear more views on the game.
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