The Early Rush
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Silence101
King
When it comes to early rushes, one thing I've been experimenting with lately is an early warrior rush - very early. Basically, if you start with a warrior, you make your first two builds a warrior also, and attack your neighbor with three warriors. At this point in the game, 90% of the time your neighbor is still defending with one warrior.
This is admittedly a bit of a gambit. One fortified warrior defending a city (w/ an additional 25% city defence bonus) has a sizable advantage against an attacking warrior. I would expect to lose one or two warriors in this type of attack. There's been a few times where I've lost all three... which basically means game over cause you're neighbor will likely attack your undefended capital with any exploring warriors. There's also the threat of barbarians hitting your capital, though I think normally you should be able to rebuild your capital's defense before the animals disappear.
Your ealiest warriors can also increase the odds a bit by gaining experience through barbarian animal encounters and going for that city raider promotion. It helps out a lot.
I'm not sure how realistic this tactic is at higher levels. It's a fairly high percentage gambit on Prince - which is usually what I play on.
This is admittedly a bit of a gambit. One fortified warrior defending a city (w/ an additional 25% city defence bonus) has a sizable advantage against an attacking warrior. I would expect to lose one or two warriors in this type of attack. There's been a few times where I've lost all three... which basically means game over cause you're neighbor will likely attack your undefended capital with any exploring warriors. There's also the threat of barbarians hitting your capital, though I think normally you should be able to rebuild your capital's defense before the animals disappear.
Your ealiest warriors can also increase the odds a bit by gaining experience through barbarian animal encounters and going for that city raider promotion. It helps out a lot.
I'm not sure how realistic this tactic is at higher levels. It's a fairly high percentage gambit on Prince - which is usually what I play on.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
At Monarch (in Warlords anyway) the AI gets archery tech and a free archer so it is a no-go really, unless you have Quechas of course.
EDIT: Or maybe that is Emperor. I dunno.
EDIT: Or maybe that is Emperor. I dunno.
CBPE
Warlord
Im hardly testing the guide! 
Of course, for testing I mean that a medium player not expert with this strategy, like me, is attempting to pursuit the early rush simply strictly follow the rules it includes.
First screenplay:
I choose a leader that helps for the rush: SHAKA (AGG/exp) Impi - Ikhanda
I played: Monarch/Pangea standard map/Normal speed
I kept a start with a coastal city, 2 gold mine, mais and claim, a lot of forests.
The idea was to exploit the gold to includes in the tech path pottery (for cheap granaries) and fishing (for the claim) and mais is soon improvable (start with agriculture).
Besides, combo with the UB (that, as you know, is a little courthouse), it may helps with mantenaince of the cities that Ill captures.
Soon I was surround by 4 neighbours: Alexander on the west, Joao south-west, Isabel south-east and Fredrick on the east (I had sea on north).
I was lucky to discovered the copper near a third gold mine (good!)
After the initial tech-package required (mining/BW/wheel) I was able to research pottery/fishing without wasting no much time and then I went for writing for open borders with them.
Meanwhile, Ive stolen a worker to Joao and escorted him in my borders. That was very useful (i build only one worker and no others) but Joao didnt want to open borders after this (Ill return to this point later).
After writing, I got AH and then I wonder a while if I had to go for IW so to eventually include Swordsmen in the stack, but I decided that Ill use only Impi to exploit the mobility promotion and to move faster to the enemys cities. So I went for math to improve chopping.
Of course, I was constantly monitorizing the enemies lands, choosing who to attack (this was the hardest choice) in the meantime that the army was ready. Fredrick was a bit more far, and his cities didnt like me so much, so I reject him.
The same I did with Joao (studying his territory from otuside of the borders didnt give me enough information).
So I had to decide between Alex or Isabel.
Either had two archers in the capital, one in the second city and one going around.
For Alex I thought it will be fine to destroy a very potential dangerous neighbour and Athens was a good placed city, but, downside, he had one archer with city garrison in the capital and Athens had a river on the side where Id to arrive (I have to spent two additional turns to go over and attack the city).
On the other side, Madrid was a very nice coastal city with gems and, of course, it was the buddist holy city, but I didnt like at all Barcelonas placement.
So I decided to attack Isabel, keeping Madrid and razing Barcelona, and to build a settler to place a fourth city 1 NE from it.
While I was completing the stack, I decided to look a little forward and research Myst/Meditation/Priesthood to have the possibility to build the oracle at the end of the war.
I used 12 impi and the rush was completly successful. I also gained 3 workers (one was a settler).
But, more important, at the end of the war, my economy still remain good.
I build the Oracle and used it for metal casting, while I was able to go directly for code of laws and I was the first, so Ive got two holy cities
At around zero year, Im not back in tech at all, Im always first or second in terms of score, Im first in population and pecentage of territory.
Now Ive stopped to play this game but it is seems very look promising!
So, the guide works wonderfully!!!
Just an observation:
Maybe it could be mentioned that when you steal a worker you lose the possibility of open borders and then to scout the territory of a potential target.
I dont know if, in this cases, it could be better to not escort the worker back (if there is the possibility) and go scouting with the unit as much as possible untill itll killed, or, at a certain point, go for alphabet and build a spy.
There is, of course, still the possibility of a blind war against this enemy only basing on the information that it can be have looking from outside of the borders, but I think thats a hard choice to do if you have others naked neighbours.....
Now I want to test the guide with a leader that doesnt help with the rush, PETER (except for the fact that starts with mining), on Monarch/Earth standard map/Normal speed
... stay tuned
Of course, for testing I mean that a medium player not expert with this strategy, like me, is attempting to pursuit the early rush simply strictly follow the rules it includes.
First screenplay:
I choose a leader that helps for the rush: SHAKA (AGG/exp) Impi - Ikhanda
I played: Monarch/Pangea standard map/Normal speed
I kept a start with a coastal city, 2 gold mine, mais and claim, a lot of forests.
The idea was to exploit the gold to includes in the tech path pottery (for cheap granaries) and fishing (for the claim) and mais is soon improvable (start with agriculture).
Besides, combo with the UB (that, as you know, is a little courthouse), it may helps with mantenaince of the cities that Ill captures.
Soon I was surround by 4 neighbours: Alexander on the west, Joao south-west, Isabel south-east and Fredrick on the east (I had sea on north).
I was lucky to discovered the copper near a third gold mine (good!)
After the initial tech-package required (mining/BW/wheel) I was able to research pottery/fishing without wasting no much time and then I went for writing for open borders with them.
Meanwhile, Ive stolen a worker to Joao and escorted him in my borders. That was very useful (i build only one worker and no others) but Joao didnt want to open borders after this (Ill return to this point later).
After writing, I got AH and then I wonder a while if I had to go for IW so to eventually include Swordsmen in the stack, but I decided that Ill use only Impi to exploit the mobility promotion and to move faster to the enemys cities. So I went for math to improve chopping.
Of course, I was constantly monitorizing the enemies lands, choosing who to attack (this was the hardest choice) in the meantime that the army was ready. Fredrick was a bit more far, and his cities didnt like me so much, so I reject him.
The same I did with Joao (studying his territory from otuside of the borders didnt give me enough information).
So I had to decide between Alex or Isabel.
Either had two archers in the capital, one in the second city and one going around.
For Alex I thought it will be fine to destroy a very potential dangerous neighbour and Athens was a good placed city, but, downside, he had one archer with city garrison in the capital and Athens had a river on the side where Id to arrive (I have to spent two additional turns to go over and attack the city).
On the other side, Madrid was a very nice coastal city with gems and, of course, it was the buddist holy city, but I didnt like at all Barcelonas placement.
So I decided to attack Isabel, keeping Madrid and razing Barcelona, and to build a settler to place a fourth city 1 NE from it.
While I was completing the stack, I decided to look a little forward and research Myst/Meditation/Priesthood to have the possibility to build the oracle at the end of the war.
I used 12 impi and the rush was completly successful. I also gained 3 workers (one was a settler).
But, more important, at the end of the war, my economy still remain good.
I build the Oracle and used it for metal casting, while I was able to go directly for code of laws and I was the first, so Ive got two holy cities
At around zero year, Im not back in tech at all, Im always first or second in terms of score, Im first in population and pecentage of territory.
Now Ive stopped to play this game but it is seems very look promising!
So, the guide works wonderfully!!!
Just an observation:
Maybe it could be mentioned that when you steal a worker you lose the possibility of open borders and then to scout the territory of a potential target.
I dont know if, in this cases, it could be better to not escort the worker back (if there is the possibility) and go scouting with the unit as much as possible untill itll killed, or, at a certain point, go for alphabet and build a spy.
There is, of course, still the possibility of a blind war against this enemy only basing on the information that it can be have looking from outside of the borders, but I think thats a hard choice to do if you have others naked neighbours.....
Now I want to test the guide with a leader that doesnt help with the rush, PETER (except for the fact that starts with mining), on Monarch/Earth standard map/Normal speed
... stay tuned
You don't "lose the possibility" of open borders - the possibility is still there. But what you will have is a large negative penalty with that Civ (-3 "You declared war on us!"). That does makes it much more unlikely that the Civ will want an Open Border treaty with you.
Bh
Bh
CBPE
Warlord
Of course....
I meant in this sense
I meant in this sense
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
- Messages
- 2,037
A possible tactics that I did not see in the file: turning down the science slider for a few turns, build a couple of warriors, and then upgrade the warrior to a spearman or an axeman. That's one more unit in your attack, if you are really talking about a true rush to the enemy capital before 1800BC, when capital borders pop the second time, given no religion, creative or wonders.
Is that what you meant by "early rush"?
Is that what you meant by "early rush"?
Thanks a lot for that very useful guide! 
I have made a similar experience like CBPE. I took the Sumerians (really good UU for that strategy!) and was able to crush two civs (Egypt/Ramses and Russia/Stalin) briefly after they had built their second city. Both capitals were located in much better places than my capital and are now the powerhouses of my civ.
CellKu
I have made a similar experience like CBPE. I took the Sumerians (really good UU for that strategy!) and was able to crush two civs (Egypt/Ramses and Russia/Stalin) briefly after they had built their second city. Both capitals were located in much better places than my capital and are now the powerhouses of my civ.CellKu
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
More or less. I didn't put an expiry date on the early rush because you can still do it after that date. If you're playing as the Romans, for example, your "early" rush will, in most games, occur after 1000 BC.
To my mind, the concept of "early rush" means that from the very first turn, you're preparing to go to war and everything else is secondary.
Ask and ye shall receive:
This is the average numbers of attackers needed to kill an archer defending a city, as a function of the total defence bonus, e.g.
50% is the intrinsic bonus for an unfortified, unpromoted archer in a 0% culture flatland city,
95% is a fortified (25%) CG1 (20%) archer in a cultureless city,
220% is a fortified CG2 archer in a hill city with walls, etc.
For each attacker type, the upper line is for unpromoted attackers, the lower one for once-promoted (quechua and chariots with Combat 1, axes and swords with CR1).
Thus, if you've got 12 unpromoted quechuas attacking 4 archers +170% (CG2, fortified in a hill city with no culture, for example), you've got about a 50/50 chance of taking it in one turn. In practice, you probably want better than 50/50 odds, so bring a few more, plus whatever garrison you want vs. a counterattack.
This was generated in Matlab (code available on request) by simulating 10000 defenders for each condition, according to the combat system explained here. I haven't incorporated the possibility of taking the city over the course of two turns, nor the fact that you might call off an attack if the first few fights go badly, skewing the remaining odds against you.
peace,
lilnev
note to Sisiutil: You're welcome to include this in the guide. Or I can send you the raw numbers if you want to plot them with your own graphics program, or whatever.
This is the average numbers of attackers needed to kill an archer defending a city, as a function of the total defence bonus, e.g.
50% is the intrinsic bonus for an unfortified, unpromoted archer in a 0% culture flatland city,
95% is a fortified (25%) CG1 (20%) archer in a cultureless city,
220% is a fortified CG2 archer in a hill city with walls, etc.
For each attacker type, the upper line is for unpromoted attackers, the lower one for once-promoted (quechua and chariots with Combat 1, axes and swords with CR1).
Thus, if you've got 12 unpromoted quechuas attacking 4 archers +170% (CG2, fortified in a hill city with no culture, for example), you've got about a 50/50 chance of taking it in one turn. In practice, you probably want better than 50/50 odds, so bring a few more, plus whatever garrison you want vs. a counterattack.
This was generated in Matlab (code available on request) by simulating 10000 defenders for each condition, according to the combat system explained here. I haven't incorporated the possibility of taking the city over the course of two turns, nor the fact that you might call off an attack if the first few fights go badly, skewing the remaining odds against you.
peace,
lilnev
note to Sisiutil: You're welcome to include this in the guide. Or I can send you the raw numbers if you want to plot them with your own graphics program, or whatever.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Thanks, lilnev--fascinating stuff!
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
If you are going to include the statistics I'd calculate the standard deviation around the mean as well, so you know the number of units you need to have a 95% chance of success (since mean +/- 2 standard deviations gives an approx. 95% confidence interval).
You can calculate the standard deviation pretty easily from data, you want the statistic s from this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation
You can calculate the standard deviation pretty easily from data, you want the statistic s from this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Say what?
Y'see, there was this really, really cute girl in my high school math class: long, tousled auburn hair, a slightly-turned up nose, pouting lower lip, dimples when she smiled, and these HUGE... uh... eyes.
So I was, shall we say, distracted when they were talkin' 'bout standard deviations and whatnot.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Well it was directed at the poster with the Matlab program, I know you are maths-shy Sisiutil. A mean (average) value isn't as useful as a value with which you would be 95% certain of defeating the defender, such as mean + 2 standard deviations.
That woman sounds like the girl who recruited for the maths society at my university anyway. My friend joined and he didn't even do maths! More thinking about snakes with two heads rather than beasts with 2 backs. You deviant.
That woman sounds like the girl who recruited for the maths society at my university anyway. My friend joined and he didn't even do maths! More thinking about snakes with two heads rather than beasts with 2 backs. You deviant.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I would add 1/2 extra units to garrison and wounded protection to the graph and a recommended unit number, but that would put the graphic as filled as a boiled egg..... ( and would add ParadigmShifter suggestion too ( average means almost nothing ) but that would make this graphical info more suited for a annex )
And nice image, that one of your high school math class memoir
.
And nice image, that one of your high school math class memoir
.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
And nice image, that one of your high school math class memoir
There are more important things to do in high school than pay attention in class. I mean, come on.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I surely agree ( it reminded me a iranian female friend I had in University .... oh those were the days.... 
) . But I surely hope that your wife isn't lurking this.... Or else 
( it reminded me a iranian female friend I had in University .... oh those were the days.... ) . But I surely hope that your wife isn't lurking this.... Or else
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I surely agree
My wife is cool about the fact that I actually had a life in the 21 years I was on this earth prior to meeting her, and I returned the favour. I don't think we would have gotten and stayed married otherwise.
punisher420x
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1
Awesome Guide!
As a beginner I was having difficulty with general warmonger tactics and this guide has enabled me to finally put the pieces together. Followed it last night playing bts and slaughtered the computer on noble every time. I'll be trying it on prince tonight. The first AI civ goes down easy and with solid resource management the second falls soon thereafter.
My friends and I have been challenged to a 3 vs. 3 multiplayer battle with no AI and I'm hoping to execute this strategy on an unsuspecting human player.
Any tips Sisiutil on using this against human opponents?
As a beginner I was having difficulty with general warmonger tactics and this guide has enabled me to finally put the pieces together. Followed it last night playing bts and slaughtered the computer on noble every time. I'll be trying it on prince tonight. The first AI civ goes down easy and with solid resource management the second falls soon thereafter.
My friends and I have been challenged to a 3 vs. 3 multiplayer battle with no AI and I'm hoping to execute this strategy on an unsuspecting human player.
Any tips Sisiutil on using this against human opponents?
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