The Emperor Masters' Challenge

[acidsatyr]

you need to chop for the settler
i'm close to unsubscribing as well

 

[futurehermit]

for those of you 'unsubscribing' i have two comments. 1) why don't you do your own if you're so studly? it's one thing to be a critic, it's another to coordinate one of these threads. 2) don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. i mean are we really losing out on the glow from your holy aura if you leave?

these threads are highly educational and interesting and i'm sure they involve a lot of time/work by the people that run them. sure, people including the topic-starter may make questionable moves from time to time, but i'm sure *everyone* does and the point of these threads is to point them out for people to learn from and also to debate whether they really are questionable in the first place.

 

[Murky]

It looks like the capital is off to a great start. Truckloads of both food and gold!

Dot-mapping seems like a fine method of planning city placement. How do you do this in the game? I always just imagine the fat cross when placing cities.

I'm hoping to learn a lot from this thread. Prince is the highest level that I've done well at so far.

 

[Argoth]

There are two ways to make a dot map. You can zoom out to the globe view and use the strategy layer to draw the fatcross. When you zoom back in you can still see the lines, so this could be a good or a bad thing. You can always delete them after you found the city though.

The other (and probably more common) way is to just take a screenshot (print screen) and then draw the lines with paint or something similar.

 

[acidsatyr]

these threads are highly educational and interesting and i'm sure they involve a lot of time/work by the people that run them. sure, people including the topic-starter may make questionable moves from time to time, but i'm sure *everyone* does and the point of these threads is to point them out for people to learn from and also to debate whether they really are questionable in the first place.

And if that is so than why the hell do you care if I’m unsubscribing?

1) Because I can hold on my own and don't need people to tell me I shouldn’t beline for archery.
2) Yes, you are, because even thought few obviously more knowledgeable people suggested that going for archery, especially now that you have axes, is simply put ******ed, you continue to push on that idea, to name one.
Since obviously some people here are not the sharpest tools in the shed , and since I don’t have intention to continue arguing with some of the kids here I am unsubscribing and letting you have your fairy tale here.
Original poster had in mind to play as perfect as possible game of emperor and quite frankly that’s impossible at least not with advices he was getting from some people here so far.
Thus, good luck

 

[Mutineer]

I want to offer some criticism.
farming floodplans and research order.

Please, note that you wasted a few critical worker turns on farming floodplans. Farming floodplans bring only 4 food and take 1.5 time longer then working special ties, like ship and cow.

You migth think it is insignificant, but it is not. The moment you saw ship your priority after farming should be animal husbentry.
Then you would know about posible hourses.
Chariots are good early barbarian busters. In adddition you potentially had your UU for defence. So, there absolutly were no reason to go after bronse working that fast. If I undestand screen shots correctly you fix city on size 2
with no chance of working gold in any feateble future.

So, you are not utilise your advantages. You do not undestand how big working gold is. One GOLD DOUBLE your research speed.

Personally I would be ignoring this cooper, stop producing setler and first grow your city to size 3 or 4 with max speed.
Next border expancion will happened resonably soon and you will get cooper in.

You need more warriors for fog busting. If I notice correctly AI found you late, meaning they most lickly far away from you, so you have danger of barbarians.
Idea is that your worker can improve gold in time of your producing setler.

 

[Mutineer]

To be true, I do not undestand this rush for bronse. What immidiate purpouse did it had?

Do you need slavery RIGTH NOW? no
Do you need axes RIGTH NOW? no, you did not even found single opponent yet.

In short, you loose a lot of production and research for little profit.

 

[futurehermit]

And if that is so than why the hell do you care if I’m unsubscribing?

1) Because I can hold on my own and don't need people to tell me I shouldn’t beline for archery.
2) Yes, you are, because even thought few obviously more knowledgeable people suggested that going for archery, especially now that you have axes, is simply put ******ed, you continue to push on that idea, to name one.
Since obviously some people here are not the sharpest tools in the shed , and since I don’t have intention to continue arguing with some of the kids here I am unsubscribing and letting you have your fairy tale here.
Original poster had in mind to play as perfect as possible game of emperor and quite frankly that’s impossible at least not with advices he was getting from some people here so far.
Thus, good luck

I don't care that you're unsubscribing, hence me telling you not to let the door hit your ass on the way out. My comments were more in support of the people you're protesting against. Saying 'obviously more knowledgable' displays your conceit. I can beat emperor pretty much 90+% of the time. I must know how the game works. Going for archery in this situation is a debatable point, not the foregone conclusion you make it out to be. Mansa's UU is an archer. Otherwise, I would 100% agree not to go archery. Other people also support the idea of going for archery, including the topic starter who is also capable of beating emperor regularly. You're not God's gift to this game, although you act like it. We certainly won't miss you in this thread. Cya.

 

[Zherak_Khan]

Have to agree with hermit here. You can offer your advice, you can explain your views and that your way sometimes/usually/always works on Emperor, but there's no reason to be condescending about it or try to brag your assumed superiority by actually stating you are unsubscribing.

 

[malekithe]

The sheep should have definitely prompted a change in the research and tile improvement plan. Probably warrior first while researching to Animal Husbandry. But, that's all a moot point now...

I would seriously consider a CS slingshot. The 2 gold mines triple your research rate. Add in a few cottages on the floodplains and at 4 population you can crank out the beakers (over 30 per turn). The single purpose for a second city at this stage would be to rush a library and start working toward a GS for an academy (to combine with beauracracy). This would require a high food forested location. One possible location would be to the NW near the fish and the silk forest. Generally, though, that's a secondary concern, and not an immediate priority (getting the gold mines up is the immediate priority). Tech order should probably be to complete pottery, (AH optional at this point), Writing, Mysticism, Polytheism, Priesthood, CoL. There's a possible quick detour in there for fishing if you want to settle to the NW. For defense you'd be relying on warriors in the short term and then axemen after your borders expand to encompass the bronze.

If you'd rather not try the CS slingshot, I'd still mostly focus on developing your capital in the short term. It's so good compared to the surrounding terrain (at least from what the screenshots show), that it would be a shame to not maximize it before claiming anything else. You don't have rivals close enough to have to worry about an early land grab. Research goals may be iron working to start colonizing the jungle (I see pigs and corn down there, along with some luxuries and a good production spot, I think). Regardless of whether you decide to go for the CS slingshot, your large research base gives you lots of flexibility. Maybe alphabet and then the Great Library...? I'd really like to find out where our rival(s) borders are, though, so we know how much time we have until the flavor of the game changes to war. We should choose which units we'd like to go to war with, and time our expansion and research such that everything fits together well.

 

[acidsatyr]

I don't care that you're unsubscribing, hence me telling you not to let the door hit your ass on the way out. My comments were more in support of the people you're protesting against. Saying 'obviously more knowledgable' displays your conceit. I can beat emperor pretty much 90+% of the time. I must know how the game works. Going for archery in this situation is a debatable point, not the foregone conclusion you make it out to be. Mansa's UU is an archer. Otherwise, I would 100% agree not to go archery. Other people also support the idea of going for archery, including the topic starter who is also capable of beating emperor regularly. You're not God's gift to this game, although you act like it. We certainly won't miss you in this thread. Cya.

The fact that you can beat emperor regularly don't mean a squat really. But, whos bragging anyway, right?
The fact that original poster can beat emperor don't mean squat either, and he already made several cardinal mistakes.
Like in chess, there are some thing that are debatable. Some are not, even if they let you still win a game. But I thought that's not the purpose of this thread.
I am not bragging about my skills, yet I am not afraid nor shy to claim that I am ***more knowledgeable*** than some people here, which at this point i know i am. Not most knowledgeable but more.
So, let me ask you one more time - What is the point of having archery if you already have bronze? You claim archery is valid because that’s where mansas UU is. Poor decision. take this whatever way you like

 

[Zherak_Khan]

The point of archery is that Skirmishers are stronger than Axes for most purposes and can be built without hooking up the damned copper - which is very relevant right now! Hunting is almost free because it gives a bonus to AH, and Archery is hardly an expensive tech either.

Skirmishers are nearly as good as Axes in the field except versus Swords and Spears, and simply way better defending cities and hills - Barbarian Axemen, anyone? I think, but don't quote me on it, that they are cheaper too. Their real weakness is that they don't get CR promotions.

However, seeing as the player went bronze and found copper in a very good location, I would recommend against going Archery now.

 

[kniteowl]

If your Gonna Settle between option A or B, I'd Go for option B, I doubt your gonna be attacked on that hill in Option A (by a civ) anytime time soon (mayb barbs) in the near future, and build a Warrior right after settling, You probly don't have much to build or else I'd build a Lighthouse and ganary to quickly grow on the coast tiles.

NOTE: YOU BETTER HURRY UP, EXPAND THOSE BROADERS AND HOOK UP DAT COPPER ASAP THE BRABS ARE COMING SOUND THE ALARMS!!!!!!

 

[futurehermit]

The fact that you can beat emperor regularly don't mean a squat really. But, whos bragging anyway, right?
The fact that original poster can beat emperor don't mean squat either, and he already made several cardinal mistakes.
Like in chess, there are some thing that are debatable. Some are not, even if they let you still win a game. But I thought that's not the purpose of this thread.
I am not bragging about my skills, yet I am not afraid nor shy to claim that I am ***more knowledgeable*** than some people here, which at this point i know i am. Not most knowledgeable but more.
So, let me ask you one more time - What is the point of having archery if you already have bronze? You claim archery is valid because that’s where mansas UU is. Poor decision. take this whatever way you like

so you say avoid archery and that makes you more knowledgable than those who don't?

i said that i would 100% agree to avoid archery if mansa's uu wasn't skirmisher, but the fact that it is makes it debatable. why? well here are some debatable points: it's emperor, the barbs are gonna be comin'. we ain't hookin' up bronze 'til border expansion which is gonna take some time. skirms are cheap and you can 1-pop poprush 'em fast and easy. with the 4 strength they are much superior to axes defending cities, especially if the city is on a hill (city + hill defense bonus).

these are the debatable points. you can claim they aren't, but you can't claim that you're more knowledgeable. i *know* why you're suggesting to avoid it and i *know* why people are recommending to go for it.

but aren't you leaving this thread?

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I approach this thread differently than the two guys that are leaving in a huff. I KNOW that I'm only a noble level player. My post had a couple questions, and I was hoping to get answers on what people thought.

I didn't know about the sheep when I made my suggestion (or the second gold for that matter).

I still defend my suggestion about bee-lining archery first, but Finding Copper and chop-rushing is not a bad call either. I was hoping to get opinions on either side of that one.

That's what I was hoping to get from reading this thread. Perhaps we can get to that when the bruised egos take their sobbing elsewhere...

 

[voek]

My 2 cents.

Stop pottery and go for AH. You need to work those tiles ASAP in combo with the gold. The gold delays your need for cottages.

I would have to say i am in favor off forgetting archery (and the UU) Axes are around the corner and are always better imho. You already have bronzeworking, you only need a fast hook up. Therefore i would chop a settler and chop or build another worker ASAP. You need a lot of worker actions (mine the gold, get those sheep and cows, build roads and connect the copper).

This is what i would do starting with the situation at hand.

 

[Poodlebrain]

I approach this thread differently than the two guys that are leaving in a huff. I KNOW that I'm only a noble level player. My post had a couple questions, and I was hoping to get answers on what people thought.

I didn't know about the sheep when I made my suggestion (or the second gold for that matter).

I still defend my suggestion about bee-lining archery first, but Finding Copper and chop-rushing is not a bad call either. I was hoping to get opinions on either side of that one.

That's what I was hoping to get from reading this thread. Perhaps we can get to that when the bruised egos take their sobbing elsewhere...

I used the bee-line to Archery strategy in my shadow game, but I think I got way too lucky for a fair analysis. I popped two goody huts that gave me Masonry and Animal Husbandry. So by the time my worker was built I was able to mine the gold and build pastures. With the cows, sheep and two gold mines working the skirmmishers just came flowing out of Timbuktu. The barbarians were never a problem; all they did was provide easy experience and promotions to my skirmmishers as they fanned outward to torment the neighbors.

I don't claim to be have mastered Emperor level as I still lose more often than I win. However, I cannot recall a game in which I have had so few of the unexpected surprises that force changes in plans. I seriously hope aelf has a more challenging game than I have had so far because I was really looking for some lessons that I'm not getting from my shadow game.

 

[cabert]

I have the feelings some high level players are somehow not able to see their "decisions" not regarder as pure truth.
Well, the OP told to begin with that wouldn't answer everyone but would choose the way he thinks is best after reading everything.
He chose to go BW, so no archery to begin with.

That means he followed the "no archery" advice, AFAIK.

I'm somewhat sentimental, and i mourn the loss of the UU (that's why i argued for archery, i know it's not a good reason), but Aelf played it so.

It's somehow odd to see the primary decision (REXing) stated without discussion, then the secondary decision (building a settler) being flamed.

My opinion on the going is you need some fogbusting/exploring units.
Warriors are good enough for now.
This way you can chop a settler while working both gold mines, and without losing research turns.
AH is high priority, since cows and sheeps are in the fat cross.

About where to settle, i don't know yet since there is very little known territory around. My best guess is to settle on the copper, so no distance maintenance, you can work the sheep and chop a library then affect 2 scientists (remember fishing is not known yet, so the fishing city north is the just useless now!)

 

[pigswill]

I assume that the argument in favour of axes over skirmishers is that at higher levels (eg emperor) you have to expand aggressively which means capturing AI cities; in order to achieve this the most powerful early units are axes with CR promotions, the easiest way for axes to gain CR promotions is by beating up on barbarians so produce them early and get them out there. This would also fit in with the idea that the fastest way to hook up copper is to choprush a settler.
This may be obvious to experienced high level players but to less experienced players such as myself its not so obvious and I don't mind being told I'm wrong if I'm told why I'm wrong.
I would also guess that the argument in favour of AH is to use special resources for optimum mix of hammers/food/commerce as well as the possibility of locating horses which could influence future settlement decisions.

 

[malekithe]

The next tech priorities really depend on what our medium term goals are. If we're trying for some sort of slingshot, AH isn't that important, as we would need all the commerce we could get our hands on. If we favor a slower tech pace and peaceful expansion (I don't favor this) then getting the sheep and cow online would be immediately helpful. Regardless, the gold needs to come online has fast as possible.

In general, right now, I just can't see skirmishers getting much use. If axemen are available, you'd never go to war with skirmishers. They can provide decent protection from barbarians, but not much better than axemen most of the time. We could have them ~20 turns sooner. That's the only reason why I would ever favor them. But, that's the safe play. The safe play rarely has the biggest payout.

In my opinion, right now, a second worker would help out a whole lot more than a settler. There are mines and pastures or cottages to be built, bronze to be mined and connected soon, and possibly a couple of forests to be chopped. Whether the second worker is more important than a couple of warriors (for scouting and potential barbarian defense) is debatable. I'd lean toward warriors in the short term while growing, then maybe chop/pop-rush the worker.