The Entire Thought Experiment

[vranasm]

^^ I absolutely have no clue what we're doing, but I built army and settler/workers :-D

 

[Folket]

I like being peaceful. So kill them fast so that I do not need to do war. Also bribe someone to join you.

 

[Cam_H]

Good solid turnset vran'. I think it was important to get those extra Workers - we seem to have a lot of undeveloped tiles still.

Ivory! Yay!

I'd civic-switch immediately to Bureaucracy, and I'm not one way or the other on if we go into Judaism-Org Religion, No State Religion-Org Religion, or stay in Paganism.

nocho
vranasm
pigswill << Up
astre << On Deck
Folket
lymond
Sengir (Skip until otherwise advised)
Cam​

 

[vranasm]

Good solid turnset vran'. I think it was important to get those extra Workers - we seem to have a lot of undeveloped tiles still.

Ivory! Yay!

I'd civic-switch immediately to Bureaucracy, and I'm not one way or the other on if we go into Judaism-Org Religion, No State Religion-Org Religion, or stay in Paganism.

nocho
vranasm
pigswill << Up
astre << On Deck
Folket
lymond
Sengir (Skip until otherwise advised)
Cam​

I am not sold on the switch into Bur... for once 1T of anarchy is still big deal now and our capital is size 3 now... and we have no good commerce there aside from gold and tR's

Bur is very weak for us... but we needed CS for spreading irrigation, so definitely worth teching up.

 

[astre]

agree bureau can wait a bit

 

[pigswill]

Got it.

If we're planning on a proper war and building units instead of settlers and workers I'm tempted to move our settler south to block Bod.

Bureau can wait until capital gets to a decent size.

 

[Cam_H]

Why wait at all? Why wait until the capital's more productive and then burn a turn on anarchy and therefore waste the potential productivity? We should get it done now while it's relatively less developed and anarchy will hurt less.

According to my quick calculations, the benefit derived from Bureaucracy pays for itself in terms of lost productivity across our empire in 6 turns.

 

[lymond]

^^^good point. although I"m still perplexed that we keep ass raping our capital.

 

[pigswill]

Preliminary thoughts....

Switch to bureau, avoid religion for now, grow capital while building units there.

HbR in 5 turns (including 1 turn anarchy) so build a few more cats then whip out some eles.

SB has seven cities, we've only spotted five. I reckon we'll attack south and defend SW.

Use settler for blocking city to prevent Bod waltzing into our land.

Techs after HbR, only Qin has aesthetics so far so I'm wondering about aesth>lit>music. We'll need to go down this line at some point if we're building horse units to meet other variants.

Eridu completes vulture, whips a library and runs a couple of scientists.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the thoughts.

(I'm away from my Civ computer, and going on memory).

Personally I'd continue to use Eridu as 'unit whip central', but now both yourself and lymond are calling for that Library > Scientists approach, so I'm OK to bow to the roster if that's the prevailing mood, but for me, I'd just keep churning out the troops as quickly and as efficiently as we can out of there.

Worth building Stables, or too expensive given our timeframe?

I'd be looking at a couple of cottages around our capital, provided that they don't cut off any potential irrigation chains.

More Workers would be great. I think vranasm was able to get out three in his turnset, which was an important step forward.

 

[vranasm]

^^^good point. although I"m still perplexed that we keep ass raping our capital.

basically because it's bad capital and nothing stands out with it to warrant making it special...

Normally I would wait for better capital from an AI, since this one is.... meh...

@pigs

I wouldn't use Eridu for science, it's our best whip farm...

don't forget to improve silks (the capital could use another good tile) and spread irrigation cleverly...
specially Iron city should get some grass farms.

 

[astre]

kind of agree with proposed options:
build more units in eridu
go to music
block bod
irrigate iron city and build plantations

for the controversial part:
I would prefer to build phant army asap (that mean no bureau until we declare)
I would not build stable. They should not be necessary unless SB have longbows. he doesn't according to the last tech screen but i didn't checked the save.

for worker, we sould be able to cature some in the near future

 

[Folket]

Let us get some cottages, with both bureaucracy and academy. Whiping elephants sounds nice but I do not see why that excludes bureaucracy?

 

[astre]

My opinion:
we want phant army fast. That mean that we do not want to afford 1 turn anarchy.
SB may be close to long bow and 1 turn can make the whole diference between cake walk and longbow shields.
When phant army will be ready, we will be able to afford to swap to bureau. altrough, personnaly, i'd wait for a musical golden age. but i can live with the 1T anarchy (but after DoW)

 

[Cam_H]

We start losing and from where we could be otherwise every turn after seven turns from the decision not to switch into Bureaucracy.

 

[astre]

I'm kind of surprised it is only 7 turns. Usualy, it is mutch longer to make bureau worth it. but did not have the chance to do the math on the save.

For now or future change, it is a matter of priority: short term army or long term economy. It's a choice to do and only future can tell us which one is better.

 

[Folket]

I would prefer a switch now if it pays of that fast.

 

[vranasm]

We start losing and from where we could be otherwise every turn after seven turns from the decision not to switch into Bureaucracy.

7 turns at this point is a lot... we are at least 20-25 turns behind typical start date for cats warfare already and we are nowhere close to fielding at least some WE's...

for the war to start we look for at least another cca 6-7 turns of preparations.

One can say that 1 turn is no big deal when we're already so late... I would prefer to have the 1T sooner to attack since we're already so late...

if it wasn't for the variant I would have doubts we should war at all

1t difference can mean fighting LB's in first SB city, no doubts the rest of SB land will be against totemed LB's.

ACtually if we're sure we won't meet LB's in next 6-7 turns, we should go with the army we have now after my tS, 4 cats and 4-5 mop up units is good force for first enemy city.

 

[Folket]

To me that sounds like an argument for revolt and attack at once.

 

[vranasm]

To me that sounds like an argument for revolt and attack at once.

yeah if we don't wait for phants then you're obviously right... if we wait for phatns..no anarchy then