The Face of NESing

[silver 2039]

Heh. Hitler was nothing but a person who knew how to use words.
He wasn't a conquerer, the second he was in control of the army germany lost.
He wasn't an economist, he just had realy good others to his side.
The only thing he knew how to do is talk. Even his speeches were writen by others.

and btw, he was a bad diplomat. (he didn't succeed in getting peace from britian now did he... or get poland without war...) it's just that everyone else were even worse... (or just chickens)

and sorry if I can't call a man who killed milions NOT IN THE WAR but just for fun a great man.

You could say the same of virtually every world leader that ever lived.

Napolean also lost and made fatal mistakes but people still regard him as a great man. Napolean blundered diplomatically and could'nt get Prussia on his side.
But there is no doubt he was a Great Man.

And Hitler was shrewd in diplomacy managaing to get and remilitrize Rhineland, Sudentenland, and Chezkslovakia without war. And tricking Russia into thinking he was going to honor the Pact of Steel.

Also he killed people with a clear goal and reason in mind. The targeting of Jews was;nt done on whim. He used it to direct the nations hate and nationalisim against an people and thus used it as a means for unifying the pople against an enemy. He also targeted them because of their economic prosperity and by sezing their buisnesses and properties was able to bolster the economy. His actions were'nt simply for "fun" as you put it. He tried to make his nation a better place, and he achieved many great deed regardless of weather they were terrible or not and he left a deep and and lasting impact on the world and history.

That makes him great in my book.

 

[erez87]

Napoleon led his army into many victories. Hitler ordered his armies only to looses. I never said Napoleon was a great diplomat... He was a great general.

Hitler got this lands not because he was a great diplomat but becaue Britian actualy thought war won't come. And about Russia believeing him you could never be sure. Some say they knew, some say they even planned to invade germany an year later...

Hitler didn't expanded his economy by stealing from the jews. Yes there were some (few, very few) rich jewish families... but saying all jews were rich and he grown a whole country economy by robbing them is not saying he's great and is just plain dumb, it can't happen.

And the killing of many many many people not in war is not making a person great. That makes him a bully.

 

[silver 2039]

Napoleon led his army into many victories. Hitler ordered his armies only to looses. I never said Napoleon was a great diplomat... He was a great general.

Hitler got this lands not because he was a great diplomat but becaue Britian actualy thought war won't come. And about Russia believeing him you could never be sure. Some say they knew, some say they even planned to invade germany an year later...

Hitler didn't expanded his economy by stealing from the jews. Yes there were some (few, very few) rich jewish families... but saying all jews were rich and he grown a whole country economy by robbing them is not saying he's great and is just plain dumb, it can't happen.

And the killing of many many many people not in war is not making a person great. That makes him a bully.

And Napolean also lead them to diasterous defeats in Russia, Spain, and Waterloo, and Gibralter.

Hitler was no general but he was a leader and he was an oratar. Just because he used people for jobs does not make him any less so. ALL leaders rely on advisors, and subordinates. In the past and present. However it is the leader that is generally crediated with the achievements of his nation during his rule.

Hitler got this lands not because he was a great diplomat but becaue Britian actualy thought war won't come

So he fooled Britian into believing there would be no war. That sounds like good diplomacy in my book.

And about Russia believeing him you could never be sure

Considerig his suprise attack complelty caught Russia off guard, and wiped out a massive amount of their air force on the gorund, took many prisioners I would say he was quite sucessfully.
Stalin certainely believed him. After the invasion Stalin was in shock. He locked himself in his house for 3 weeks in a stupor.

Hitler didn't expanded his economy by stealing from the jews

I know but I'm saying he didn't target the Jews for "fun" he had a reason for it.

And the killing of many many many people not in war is not making a person great. That makes him a bully

So it's far better to kill in war than in peace. I see.

 

[erez87]

Yes Napoleon also led his armies to looses. But Hitler led them ONLY to looses the second he took command of the army.

And being a leader doesn't make him the great one...

I would only agree that he was a great diplomat, or speecher (however that is spelled.) He is not a great man. He failed everything else. Other "great people" (that some of them also are great only in one thing) didn't failed everything else...

 

[Oruc]

I cant believe people are saying Napoleon was a great man, the guy was a ****ing tyrant

 

[Toteone]

He executed prisoners of war to suit his purposes. His wars cost millions of lives for little reason other then personal ambition and nationalism.

If there was anything great about him then it was his forwardness with things, but at what cost?

 

[Oruc]

He executed prisoners of war to suit his purposes. His wars cost millions of lives for little reason other then personal ambition and nationalism.

If there was anything great about him then it was his forwardness with things, but at what cost?

Even toteone agrees with me

 

[Reno]

You people never seem to learn.

 

[Silver Steak]

Why has this thread degraded into a flame war about Hitler? Oh, right. Neither of you are willing to shut up, in case it is taken as a sign of defeat... How foolish. This thread will most likely be shut down the next time one of the moderators checks it anyway.

No more flaming, guys! To calm your tempers, behold the wonderful pictures of cats posted by Warman and me! Oh, btw, CATS ARE NOT EVIL, MjM!

 

[Israelite9191]

Cats are pure good. Cats>dogs.

I am purposely not replying to the ignorant and insulting posts by silver in ragrads to Hitler. I will stay out of the discussion. I just want it known that i did see the posts and I am making a consious decision to not let silver drag me into a futile debate over the evilest man who ever lived.

 

[Warman17]

And Napolean also lead them to diasterous defeats in Russia, Spain, and Waterloo, and Gibralter.

Hitler was no general but he was a leader and he was an oratar. Just because he used people for jobs does not make him any less so. ALL leaders rely on advisors, and subordinates. In the past and present. However it is the leader that is generally crediated with the achievements of his nation during his rule.



So he fooled Britian into believing there would be no war. That sounds like good diplomacy in my book.



Considerig his suprise attack complelty caught Russia off guard, and wiped out a massive amount of their air force on the gorund, took many prisioners I would say he was quite sucessfully.
Stalin certainely believed him. After the invasion Stalin was in shock. He locked himself in his house for 3 weeks in a stupor.



I know but I'm saying he didn't target the Jews for "fun" he had a reason for it.



So it's far better to kill in war than in peace. I see.

What was Germany's achievement? Starting a war which ultimatly led to it's destruction mostly due to it's leader making wrong decisions on crucial moments. How does that make good leadership qualities?


Britian fooled itself into believing there would be no war, and in most case was trying to prepare itself for a war(expansions on the RAF funding for example)

Hitler only fooled Stalin. He didn't fool his subordinates. When it coes to Russia, you don' need to fool Russia, just Stalin. It was through Stalin's own dellusions that Russia suffered early losses, not Hitler's grand plan.

A bad reason. -> The 'purification' of the german gene pool.

The point of a war is to kill for dominatioin, so killing is more acceptable. Especially along military terms. Wholesale slaughter is never acceptable however.

 

[Insane_Panda]

I know but I'm saying he didn't target the Jews for "fun" he had a reason for it.

Hitler had no reason for targeting the Jews other than blind hate. He did kill Jews 'for fun'. Hitler was an anti-semite LONG BEFORE he was fuhrer. He was blinded by his anti semitism and convinced the nation of Germany that the jews were the ones to blame for their disastrous losses as he believed. Hitler was not, as you believe, a mastermind which conjured up anti-semitism as a way to rally the people of Germany. Hitler was not smart enough for that.

His anti-semitism guided him, and not the other way around.

Furthermore, concerning the German economy of WWII. The only reason it fared well was because of reforms already initiated by the Weimar Government (the period before Hitler's ascension to power was a period of economic growth for germany) and the war, among other things. By gearing the German industry for war and by placing himself in an almost constant state of war, Hitler did not have to worry about debts which Germany owed to foriegn nations, and thus lifted a huge burden off the German economy. On the surface things looked quite nice, but underneath the image of a perfect nation of blond people, was a gathering storm, a storm stalled by the constant wars which Hitler placed himself in.

 

[tommy_toon]

My 2 cents. I understand what silver means I think, or maybe I just misunderstood him completely. Hitler did great things that will never be forgotten. Now, don't go and be like "great = good" because it doesn't, great just means big. What he did was terrible, but was great none the less.

Please stop trying to get praise for ignoring something Israelite, it's very childish to do so.

Now let's go back to looking at pictures!!!!

Taste the Rainbow Brownies!

 

[Sheep]

This thread is way off topic.

 

[Israelite9191]

Please stop trying to get praise for ignoring something Israelite, it's very childish to do so.

I'm not trying to get praise. I just know that everyone assumes that I am going to go at him for his statements. I was making the point so that people wouldn't pester me (I know one particular person who actually would) to react.

 

[MjM]

Good millitary man? Oh please. Your just looking for a way to be differnt about that topic now.

Good economist? He didnt do squat for or about it. Only his advisors did anything. What did the German econmy look like after the war?

Good stregist? What about the invasion of the USSR? If he didnt, we would all be saying Heil Mein Fuhrer! right about now. But he is a fool and did so anyway.

Good orator? What do you expect a population gripped by devontial fascism to do?

You just seem bluntly rascist to me. Though I dont mind, freedom of speech and all, you just sound stupid calling Hitler a great man.

 

[North King]

Guys, SHUT UP. It's things like this which piss moderators off.

 

[Chieftess]

Moderator Action: This thread has gotten completely spammy and off topic. Consider this a general warning. Thread closed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889