The Grognards

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by LouLong
OK, most countries are agreed upon without any difficulty.

Austria, Britian, France, Prussia and Russia as the major protagonists.

Spain, Portugal, Ottomans, Sweden, Denmark-Norway and NOT the Netherlands (these were part of France soon after the revolution (Batave republic + integrated into France).

Now the others: remember this is supposed to be both a mod and a scenario. As a scenario, it can only include 31 civs but the mod can include more that will be usable partly in the other scenarios that I hope some people will decide working on.

So we could have USA as well as the different states of Germany (Bavaria, Bade, Saxony,...) and Italy (Papal States, Venice....) or the forced Napoleonic allies (Westphalia, Naples, Italy, Swiss, Poland (linked to Saxony)) depending on the period so I think we should gather as many as possible for the mod (including Barbary coast) but we have to choose up to 31 for the main scenario and to keep it playable.

That is 11 with the first and secondary powers. Now, propose your list for the others !

IIRC both the Papal States, the Kingdom of Naples, the Kingdom of Sardinia (Savoy) and Florence (a good chunk of northern Europe) existed in 1797 independent of French rule.

I mention this in part because starting with the Sistine Chapel already built in Rome will certainly make it a juicy target ...

... although FRANCE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BUILD CATHEDRALS -- recall there was considerable debate re: "quarrying" Notre Dame de Paris etc.

IMHO the three "German" states should be the German Empire, Prussia, and Austria.

Also don't forget "minor" possessions like Gibraltar and (1797) French control of the islands off the Balkan's western shore.

Best,

Oz

 

[Yoda Power]

I think we should have North German States(or maybe Protestant states?), South German States(or Catholic?) Prussia and Austria.

I also think all wonders should be from this era, thus it would be alot of "event" wonders.

 

[Rocoteh]

LouLong,

I think you misunderstand me with regard to "teeth to tail
ratio". Since Yoda Power made a question on the max.
number of divisions French had at its high, I tried to
estimate from the numbers of soldiers invading Russia 1812.

If hitpoints should represent quantity, elite forces like
the guard should have higher stats.
Edit: If on the other hand hitpoints should represent
quality: Then for example a Frendh Guard unit should
have double as many hitpoints as a regular unit.

Chasseur Division (Morand) of the Guard had 4 Regiments
at Waterloo (4 500 men). Given the extreme elite character
of the French Guard I think it could be represented by
Regiments.

I do not see a need for a tech-tree for this mod.

Yes I am interested to be a part of the team.
My special field should then be Order Of Battle and
unit organization.

Rocoteh

 

[Yoda Power]

You dont want a tech tree? In my experience mods/scenarios without tech trees gets boring pretty quickly.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by ozymandias

IMHO the three "German" states should be the German Empire, Prussia, and Austria.
Oz

I disagree. Prussia and Austria Hungary are major players.

The German Empire (BTW Conderacy of the Rhine would be more historically correct) was made of many different states. The biggest behind Bavaria, Saxony, Westphalia and Wurtemberg.

I can dig out army list of all German states. It could be a good starting point to decide what to keep and what to discard.

 

[Steph]

I'm for a tech tree, but an event tech tree.
Each tech will give bonus / malus to the army.

For instance, the French army should decrease a lot in quality after 1812. This could be done with a tech that will give units which are un upgrade of earlier one, but with lower stats.

We could also use Europa Universalis II list of events to put more flavour into the game.

 

[Rocoteh]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
You dont want a tech tree? In my experience mods/scenarios without tech trees gets boring pretty quickly.

I can think of a tech-tree if someone can come up
with something relevant to fill it with.


Rocoteh

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Rocoteh


I can think of a tech-tree if someone can come up
with something relevant to fill it with.


Rocoteh

Well I think there should be unit upgrades and new units. Also if we go after some event wonders it wouild be usefull too.

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Steph


I disagree. Prussia and Austria Hungary are major players.

The German Empire (BTW Conderacy of the Rhine would be more historically correct) was made of many different states. The biggest behind Bavaria, Saxony, Westphalia and Wurtemberg.

I can dig out army list of all German states. It could be a good starting point to decide what to keep and what to discard.

I tend to agree with you about these states, the Rhine confederacy might be too versatile for my tastes though. I could imagine some locked alliances with some (Westphalia for instance) and temporal alliance (Saxony comes to mind, wonder why ?).

No need to worry about the army sizes and such, Steph : I will do it directly (once they are chosen).

 

[Rocoteh]

Originally posted by Steph
I'm for a tech tree, but an event tech tree.
Each tech will give bonus / malus to the army.

For instance, the French army should decrease a lot in quality after 1812. This could be done with a tech that will give units which are un upgrade of earlier one, but with lower stats.

We could also use Europa Universalis II list of events to put more flavour into the game.

If the French army should decrease in quality after 1812,
then you have pre-determined history. I mean you have de facto
determined that the invasion of Russia should end in disaster.

Rocoteh

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Rocoteh
LouLong,
Chasseur Division (Morand) of the Guard had 4 Regiments
at Waterloo (4 500 men). Given the extreme elite character
of the French Guard I think it could be represented by
Regiments.

I do not see a need for a tech-tree for this mod.

Yes I am interested to be a part of the team.
My special field should then be Order Of Battle and
unit organization.

Rocoteh

Welcome "Home" crazyeye: ) to the team.
Yes, I think you have shown your keen interest (+ experience in USCW) on that special topic. I am sure confrontation on ideas between you and Steph could bring tremenduous results

The tech-tree : well, since there are no events in Conquests, I copied the idea from Yoda to turn the tech-tree into an event-tree that can be calculated on a per-turn basis. But it is just my opinion.
BTW you had a tech-tree in USCW and that war lasted less longer than the Revolution + Napoleonic era !!! (so topic to be decided later).

Imperial guard : I totally agree but for one thing : can we put them on the same level as a standard brigade (seems REALLY elite then).

So my question still remains : were there any major upgrades during the war (technics, not tactics).

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Rocoteh

If the French army should decrease in quality after 1812,
then you have pre-determined history. I mean you have de facto
determined that the invasion of Russia should end in disaster.

No, I mean I de facto determines that the French army quality decrease because of lack of manpower and enthusiasm after long years of warfare.

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Steph


I disagree. Prussia and Austria Hungary are major players.

The German Empire (BTW Conderacy of the Rhine would be more historically correct) was made of many different states. The biggest behind Bavaria, Saxony, Westphalia and Wurtemberg.

I can dig out army list of all German states. It could be a good starting point to decide what to keep and what to discard.

Hi Steph,

You misunderstood my comment -- I was merely listing Civs. Prussia and A-H are, without question, major powers, whereas the "German Empire" would be IMO a weak entity.

NB: the "legal" boundary of the German Empire included parts of Denmark and Austria. Other major "components" were Hanover, Saxony, and Bavaria; lesser "components" included Baden and Wurttemberg. I don't recall if entities like "The Palatinate" still existed at this time.

Abraxas,

Oz

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by LouLong

So my question still remains : were there any major upgrades during the war (technics, not tactics).

A few, like the English use of rockets. But not many.

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Steph

No, I mean I de facto determines that the French army quality decrease because of lack of manpower and enthusiasm after long years of warfare.

I agree with Rocoteh we should not MAKE that happen automatically.
Basically : war weariness + lack of troops resulting in cronscription is what happened after 1812 (among other things as well of course) and that can happen in the game without us interefering.

BTW I think France should be the only power able to draft citizens.

 

[Rocoteh]

Steph,

That sounds reasonable.

Rocoteh

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Steph


A few, like the English use of rockets. But not many.

Then we should just incorporate, every single of the not so many upgrades that were.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by LouLong

BTW I think France should be the only power able to draft citizens.

And Prussia. The major part of Prussian army was in fact Landwehr regiments

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by LouLong


I agree with Rocoteh we should not MAKE that happen automatically.
Basically : war weariness + lack of troops resulting in cronscription is what happened after 1812 (among other things as well of course) and that can happen in the game without us interefering.

BTW I think France should be the only power able to draft citizens.

My idea is more to have the quality of English / Prussian troops increase faster than the quality of French one.

So France is stronger at the beginning, but not so at the end.

 

[Yoda Power]

actually drafting could be a tech. France(and Prussia perhaps) can just draft from the start of the game. Only and idea.