The Hall of Players

[elitetroops]

I believe the traditional small empire culture strat is a bit outdated. Main reason it's been considered the best for so long is that nobody really put serious effort into finding something better. @Anysense just did and showed sushi is a very serious contender on marathon. I think even when going for non-sushi culture a larger empire will be able to produce better results than small empires at least on epic and marathon. Quick speed it would be harder to find something much more efficient than the old strats.

 

[Seraiel]

Compare the Player-Logs of the Hall of Fame @Anysense .

It' s a known fact, that the faster the speed, the larger the map, the more difficult the Game.

Take a look at this game CivFanatics Civilization IV Hall of Fame from @kovacsflo if you want to learn.

What I wrote (traditional Culture is faster) is definately true, I remember having read it from an older Player and having tested it myself.

Kind regards, Seraiel.

 

[Anysense]

What I wrote (traditional Culture is faster) is definately true, I remember having read it from an older Player and having tested it myself.

My tests show that it rather depends upon a combination of civ, leader, map script, map size, game speed and difficulty level. For example, one should expect serious difficulties with Sushi on Normal speed and a map larger than Small, and I doubt that it will work on Quick at all. I also doubt that conquering even one or two civs is worth it on Quick.

It would be great if you shared your experince. I did not know that anybody tried anything unconventional before, let alone put work into it.

 

[Anysense]

There is no 004 version on HoF site. I just happen to have it and it probably can be found elsewhere, but still you can't have too many sources. Particularly in regard with old and no longer actively used stuff which tends to vanish into oblivion.

Spoiler :

 

[Seraiel]

Read the whole Hall of Fame Questions and Answers Thread, there is a Post from the Old Administrator @Denniz that contains BUFFY004.

 

[Pangaea]

Recently there was a culture gauntlet that got quite some activity. Yes, it's not Deity nor Huge, only Warlords. But I do think there are things to be learned from these more expansive games. For the n-th time in the HoF, it felt like I got at least partially beaten by hut luck before the game really started, but still got in two games below 1000AD, which was among the best games submitted around those settings until that gauntlet (edit: it actually beat the best games until then by over 100 years). @elitetroops won with a very impressive 835AD date. Especially on Marathon, it sure looks like going all the way to Sushi with a large empire can pay dividends. Maybe it only works well with OP units like Praetorians, but it could still be something to check out with other civs too.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...d-cultural-deadline-october-27th-2020.662186/
https://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=major&gauntlet=723&submit=Go

Monty isn't exactly the gold standard for culture leaders either.

 

[Anysense]

Read the whole Hall of Fame Questions and Answers Thread, there is a Post from the Old Administrator @Denniz that contains BUFFY004.

Surely you're joking, mr. Plöger!

@Pangaea , any civ can do it, as long they can get decent date for Sushi. I remember WT argued that the English can achieve about as much as Inca in this area (fast corps).

 

[Pangaea]

Yes, the English are really good for games like that due to nice traits. May also be helpful in distressful Sushi games due to a useful UB. Their downside is the lack of an excellent early UB, like Persians for example (and of course the Praets or even more OP Quechuas), but they have nice traits that also help with culture.

Out of interest, when did you get Sushi in that game? Still a TON of work to spread to a million islands and hook up all that food. Looks like it's a Big and Small map and your colour is all over the place. Impressive. Also very nice to take down another Inca game

 

[Seraiel]

Surely you're joking, mr. Plöger!

Why do you write that? I' ve read the thread the 2nd time myself lately and there is a post from @Denniz that has the content of BUFFY004.

I stick with the judgement that I have from my own games, traditional Culture with Cottages and small empires is faster.

I excuse myself for not being able to dig out the old discussion right now, because I' m ill at the moment.

Seraiel.

 

[Anysense]

Out of interest, when did you get Sushi in that game? Still a TON of work to spread to a million islands and hook up all that food. Looks like it's a Big and Small map and your colour is all over the place. Impressive. Also very nice to take down another Inca game

It's Small/B&S and Sushi was founed on turn 313 which is much faster than in a Space game by Seraiel on the same map size (t382). Other records for comparison:
t315 Sushi on Standard by WastinTime;
t323 Sushi on Large by Seraiel;
t326 Mining on Huge by Kaitzilla;
t269 Mining on Large by WastinTime in his BC Space game.
It is not really that much work on Small. Besides, picking up food is very straightforward with imperialistic. Those easy 3-pop whips with max overflow are very handy for producing failgold. So, you just keep whing settlers until it is time to switch into caste and go into teching mode. Unfotunately, this submission was exluded because apparently I accidentally replayed a few turns (those last 50 turns are all the same). But I have a Space Colony game accepted to remove another Incan first; the process is going on, even if a bit slower.

Since the game is not valid I can upload the saves.

 

[Seraiel]

A good day to everybody!

You cannot alter my judgement, traditional Culture is faster, I know that for a fact. The tech path to Sushi is too long for it to pay off, working the Culture slider would give faster Culture and with Cottages even more Culture. In my best times I could be faster than any of my own dates, just because of how I developed in every game. I really tested several Culture victories, it's possible to win a game with traditional Cutlure 'til T313.

 

[Anysense]

I know there a couple of BC Culture games but can't open them (3.17). It's a pity really, as it would very interesting to have a closer at those games; 290BC seems incredible even for Settler. If you could do that on Deity it would have been big news I think. Well worth the effort if you like this kind of game.

 

[Seraiel]

I remember there being good Culture guides in the War Academy, You can also post a playthrough where you pause before making moves and We' ll give advice, I remember having posted a Culture Victory on my own in Replay #7, unfortunately the Screens got lost but the Post is still there, read and try out yourself, if you manage to succeed with Sushi, learning the traditional approach has to be faster.

 

[Pangaea]

Impressive Sushi date. I looked up a few of those games too, and it's just crazy to me how it's possible to get Sushi that fast. Too bad it got excluded after you probably put in a lot of hours, but I'm also kinda glad they are strict with stuff like that, even tho it often is probably due to mishaps, loading the wrong save or something.

 

[Anysense]

Got another game going, playing Small/Terra for a change. I had several attempts. The Oracle was stolen very early 5th time in a row (Huyana Capac this time), GW was gone pretty early too... Found myself in a nasty situation with no wonders for early failgold and no free Currency. Mansa saved it with super early Alpha, though. Also had amazing city for quick Mids+HG, that helped to get some gold to get on with research. No great cities for GP farm, though. The best one could support only 8 specialists. First bulb went to Scientific Method. That was 4th GP. First was 100% GE and then 2 for second golden age. I kind of begin to appreciate have Philosophical can be useful in such games.
Anyway, its turn 309 and Mining has been just incorporated in Rome. Decent cap this time, not the coastal crap I usually get on B&S. This is even a bit faster than Sushi in the culture game. Not very surprising really - you don't need lots of temples and other otherwise useless cultural buildings.

Spoiler :

I have another GS to part bulb Biology and will probably have one more in 5 turns, unless I switch to slavery. A few cities can one-turn executives without whipping, so slavery can wait a bit. Mansa has Compass and Optics waiting for but they would kill Biology bulb. That will leave very little time for settling in the new world should I delay those bulbs. BTW, Darius will need new home there before I flipped his last city, which also has two Sushi resources.
What should I research next? I used to get factories+power first and than go for Sushi. May be I will break the tradion and do Sushi first than tech AL? Not sure whether it is worth it with such a small empire. I'm currently ~8% below domination limit, allowing several cities on the other continent to pick up resources. Probably get Mining to 50+ hammers; I expect Sushi will be rather weak, though.
Ah, and there is Coco Chanel (another 4500?).
Edit: And I had a very good event.

Edit2: Must not forget to steal HBR from Darius.

 

[Anysense]

I really ought to have planned third great merchant Oh well, its still a good game.

 

[Pangaea]

My ass keeps getting ravaged by the RNG in various games now, so think I may have to try a game on settler level. Without barbs. Or random events. AIs have to be present, however...

That event is the exact same I got earlier. In an OCC. With a National Park and an inland capital. It wasn't very useful!

 

[Anysense]

That event is the exact same I got earlier. In an OCC. With a National Park and an inland capital. It wasn't very useful!

I'm going to have at least 70 coal plants, so its at least 70*8=560 per turn out of thin air. Nothing to complain about

 

[Anysense]

I got screwed by RNG too. Failed first Sushi spread and then failed 7-8 out of next 15. That was a major setback - might as well get Medicine 4 or 5 turns later. Same difference really.

 

[Anysense]

I just got an idea how to reduce my territory on other continents and islands. Settle extra cities and give them to Darius and he will take care of it.

Spoiler :

Like this

I wonder if gifting him up to Banking will work - he might be tempted by free artist. Spreading a religion would work for sure, if only I had monasteries.