The Historical Basis for Catalonian Independence

[gangleri2001]

Someone who takes the suggestion that he holds Spanish citizenship as a personal insult certainly meets my standard of a silly nationalist. Joan is much more approachable about these matters than you are, so you might wish to consider why that is.

When that citizenship was imposed at the expense of the life of members of your family then it is an insult of the worst kind. I don't know about Joan or is family so I can't judge.

I hope the Spanish government crushes you with force if you try anything. Tanks on the street.

Some months ago an analyst of defence of the Spanish army published that given the current resources of Spain (human and financial), such an action would most likely end up like the Ten-Day War in Slovenia. Spain can no longer deter the whole process, it can only delay it.

 

[Tee Kay]

Catalonia should be annexed by Andorra.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

NATO troops have left a long time ago, and its two pieces. But the OHR has the right to take down any appointed official, so yeah, we're a satellite state of the EU, a mere vassal. But we shall rise for the old regime must die.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

Some months ago an analyst of defence of the Spanish army published that given the current resources of Spain (human and financial), such an action would most likely end up like the Ten-Day War in Slovenia. Spain can no longer deter the whole process, it can only delay it.

Or it can turn into a Bosnia...you never know.

 

[Arakhor]

When that citizenship was imposed at the expense of the life of members of your family then it is an insult of the worst kind.

I'm not trying to be overly snarky here, but that would imply that your issue is that, 300 years ago, a distant ancestor died during the War of Spanish Succession, or was there some more recent mass death in Catalonia that granted you Spanish citizenship, rather your simply being born in the Kingdom of Spain?

 

[ace99]

There was an autonomous Anarchist Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War.

The only form of Catalonia worth existing IMO, just to see if it would work or become a Spanish Somalia.

 

[gangleri2001]

I'm not trying to be overly snarky here, but that would imply that your issue is that, 300 years ago, a distant ancestor died during the War of Spanish Succession, or was there some more recent mass death in Catalonia that granted you Spanish citizenship, rather your simply being born in the Kingdom of Spain?

Ever heard of Francoism?

There was an autonomous Anarchist Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War.

The only form of Catalonia worth existing IMO, just to see if it would work or become a Spanish Somalia.

That anarchist scum. Many historians have discovered that many of theis leaders were being paid by both the republicans and the Francosits in order to deter any declaration of independence, specially those of the CNT FAI. Anarchists! May they be tortured forever in the afterlife.

 

[eduhum]

Gangleri2001, the mother closest friend of mine works at the press department of Artur Mas himself, and his father, councilor of CiU at el Masnou (not so important).
I too have friends connected with the 400 bourgeoisie families elite group, politicians and the IESE. And one even very connected with CNI, Spain espionage agency.


Rest assured, when I say the Catalonia cannot be independent I can say it with conviction. To be anti-independency hasn't held me to be more or less connected with the 'upper classes'..

 

[Arakhor]

Ever heard of Francoism?

I realise that Catalan matters are to you inextricable from your own breathing, but if I had realised about Franco's actions in the Spanish Civil War, do you really think I'd reference the War of Spanish Succession? When I ask a genuine question, I expect more from you than four words that imply that I'm simply ignorant.

 

[gangleri2001]

Gangleri2001, the mother closest friend of mine works at the press department of Artur Mas himself, and his father, councilor of CiU at el Masnou (not so important).
I too have friends connected with the 400 bourgeoisie families elite group, politicians and the IESE. And one even very connected with CNI, Spain espionage agency.


Rest assured, when I say the Catalonia cannot be independent I can say it with conviction. To be anti-independency hasn't held me to be more or less connected with the 'upper classes'..

Hello Mr. Upper Diagonal! What have you eaten today in the Real Club de Polo? Was Javier de Godó there? Were you reading La Vanguardia or watching 8tv? Having a master's degree from ESADE and IESE feels great, isn't it?

Now seriously. After what you've said I can clearly see that you belong to that unionist bunker of the Upper Diagonal of Barcelona. You guys would do anything in order to oppose independentism. The best of it is that you'll be the first ones to declare that you've always been independentists once we become an independent state.

I realise that Catalan matters are to you inextricable from your own breathing, but if I had realised about Franco's actions in the Spanish Civil War, do you really think I'd reference the War of Spanish Succession? When I ask a genuine question, I expect more from you than four words that imply that I'm simply ignorant.

Francoism has been by far more nationaly repressive than any previous regime. So when I'm referring to people dead in my family I'm referring to people being killed during Francoism because they're in living memory. Sure I might have ancestors who got killed during the Succession War, but they are to remote in time to feel them members of my family.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Catalonia should be annexed by Andorra.

Hmm, that would be a neat what-if.

If Spain blocks Catalonia secession as an independent state, but Catalonia get's around that by joining Andorra.

 

[Arakhor]

The Catalans would never do that. It would make the French president one of their new heads of state.

 

[gangleri2001]

Hmm, that would be a neat what-if.

If Spain blocks Catalonia secession as an independent state, but Catalonia get's around that by joining Andorra.

We'd need the approval of the President of the French Republic and the Bishop of Urgell if we wanted to do so.

The Catalans would never do that. It would make the French president one of their new heads of state.

What? Having a French head of state is one thing and being part of France another. If the only way to be independent was the andorran way, I'd accept Mr. Hollande as one of my two heads of state. I wouldn't accept the bishop though, but that is because I'm not a Christian.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Ah right forgot about that one minor detail...

Speaking of... Would you Catalans rather be part of France or Spain?

 

[ace99]

And presumably Andorra itself...

 

[gangleri2001]

Ah right forgot about that one minor detail...

Speaking of... Would you Catalans rather be part of France or Spain?

None. Both are *excrement*.

BTW, is there any mod online? Can we ask them to split this conversation into another thread?

 

[Arakhor]

Waht? Having a French head of state is one thing and being part of France another. If the only way to be independent was the andorran way, I'd accept Mr. Hollande as one of my two heads of state. I wouldn't accept the bishop though, but that is because I'm not a Christian.

Right... So gaining two unelected heads of state, one of whom is a foreigner who I doubt even speaks Catalan, is worth being released from Spain and added to Andorra, effectively swapping one Iberian monarchy for another? How is that independence at all?

 

[TheLastOne36]

Right... So gaining two unelected heads of state, one of whom is a foreigner who I doubt even speaks Catalan, is worth being released from Spain and added to Andorra, effectively swapping one Iberian monarchy for another? How is that independence at all?

I am not familiar with Andorran politics but it wouldn't be too bad if the French PM was merely a titular head of state. The bishop thing is kinda bleh though.

 

[gangleri2001]

Right... So gaining two unelected heads of state, one of whom is a foreigner who I doubt even speaks Catalan, is worth being released from Spain and added to Andorra, effectively swapping one Iberian monarchy for another? How is that independence at all?

The andorran scenario is not even realistic to begin with so why bother to take into account all its implications?

And by the way, having two unelected heads of state, one of them not being able to speak Catalan, would be the same as having an unelected Spanish king taht cannot speak Catalan if it wasn't because with the first option at least we'd have an independent Catalan state called Andorra.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Right... So gaining two unelected heads of state, one of whom is a foreigner who I doubt even speaks Catalan, is worth being released from Spain and added to Andorra, effectively swapping one Iberian monarchy for another? How is that independence at all?

Questions of purpose and practicality are irrelevant to Euronationalists.