The Pilgrim
Deity
Hammer Rabbi, haven't AI built wonders at all in your game? Do I see Petra construction in Lyon? 
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The ICS Experiment w/4 Civs
- Thread starter Hammer Rabbi
- Start date
Any chance you could post the winning save?
Hammer Rabbi, haven't AI built wonders at all in your game? Do I see Petra construction in Lyon?
i took maybe 10 from the AI but yeah, petra was just a choice maybe 1 turn from victory for no reason at all. monty only had 3 wonders in his cap but Sweden was the one with the most i think, something like 5--4 in his cap and machu pichu in Sigtuna. i think because of my unit presence even when i wasnt at war they changed their build order. i eventually went for FP very late and my spy told me that Monty was building it but i was 2 turns ahead of him. 6 or 7 turns later he finished Angkor Wat instead. I guess his spy told him I was building it and he switched cuz i was ahead. First time ive noticed that happening. Hiawatha had a couple but i dont remember what. I was surprisingly ahead in tech by Ren era. usually in warmongering its not til Industrial on emperor for me unless im a science civ. Sistine went 1 turn before victory and PT, Louvre, Big Ben, and Brandenburg were still available. And i think China is something like 20 for 20 on building GW in my games. the only times she didnt were the times i rushed it with a liberty GE just to not deal with it.
also, i posted the 'who you are' screen to see as my points made me think id be Hammurabi, my name-sake, but i dont know why they were so different. i was ~2400 i think on the score window but over 5k in the vic window.
@Nials: i'll post the save.
View attachment Napoleon_0242 AD-1660.Civ5Save
budweiser
King of the Beers
Already in this test you can see the power that many cities gives you. It is something you probably should strive for with certain civs (not Korea?). But I think what you want to strive for is giant capital (don’t overly waste growth turns building settlers in the cap) along with many cities. This would imply Monarchy at some point. Monarchy in a 15 or 20 size cap would allow you more cities right then. This is all about chasing happiness and of course every tree has happiness in it, but I digress.
Civ is a game that tries to recreate the events of real history on a different terrain set. The ability of a civ to suddenly burst out at the seams and expand tremendously is built into the game. How when and where are the questions. Look at American and Russian expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries and you can see the effect. They don’t start out in an ICS style, but they progress to a certain point and then expand rapidly. It is my secret belief that a city can be and therefore should eventually be placed on every spot that has access to at least one bonus tile, like even a single fish or a cow.
This is something that you can turn on and turn off, just another tool. Like, if I want 10 turn culture, I put up all the artist buildings in all my cities, work the slot and I should come pretty close to 10 turn culture, some sort of science revolution where you get a bunch of techs all in the span of a few turns. Some civs can rex right from day one, others have to wait a bit longer to get it rolling. As you play a map keep this strategy in mind and use it when the opportunity arises.
Civ is a game that tries to recreate the events of real history on a different terrain set. The ability of a civ to suddenly burst out at the seams and expand tremendously is built into the game. How when and where are the questions. Look at American and Russian expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries and you can see the effect. They don’t start out in an ICS style, but they progress to a certain point and then expand rapidly. It is my secret belief that a city can be and therefore should eventually be placed on every spot that has access to at least one bonus tile, like even a single fish or a cow.
This is something that you can turn on and turn off, just another tool. Like, if I want 10 turn culture, I put up all the artist buildings in all my cities, work the slot and I should come pretty close to 10 turn culture, some sort of science revolution where you get a bunch of techs all in the span of a few turns. Some civs can rex right from day one, others have to wait a bit longer to get it rolling. As you play a map keep this strategy in mind and use it when the opportunity arises.
pre-steam power, france felt like i had a much better advantage with culture. (i actually forgot i was working on it til it was only 1 turn left. i switched off it when i realized i wouldnt need flight.) i couldnt believe my cpt and that it was still roughly 20-25 turns per policy after i had 10+ cities. im not sure how many i can get with Egypt but they have their own culture advantages with wonder-whoring. i'll get to them but prolly not til the weekend. gotm50 is coming on saturday so not til after that, plus im going to do immortal on both civs as well.
budweiser
King of the Beers
What I really want to do next is get a good patch of desert and unleash more ics camel archers with Desert folklore, pilgrimage and holy warriors. I'm pretty sure you would see a pre-200 turn victory on immortal with ease. It takes quite a while for the AI to develop enough city defense to withstand the 21 point base firepower of the camel archer.
The Pilgrim
Deity
Pretty unbelievable. Why do people complain they can't build wonders on emperor anymore?
I didn't pay much attention, but in my game all wonders went more or less on their usual times. I did rush ND and Machu Picchu with two engineers and took SH from Washington. The rest of them are... uhm... somewhere... 
Hopefully I'll find the motivation to finish this game. I have a feeling all domination games give you Caesar rating. I have no idea what the formula is (and really don't care) but that's how it always was for me. Peaceful VC = lower score. Not that it matters.
Well, one thing to take into consideration, this is not the most typical map (at least the one I played, I haven't seen the other one). Luxury abundance and rivers make ICS much easier than it should be and than it is on a completely random map.
The other point is, as RedRover said, for the fastest finish at any VC focusing on few strong cities would take you further.
Domination without ICS? Of course.
Pretty unbelievable. Why do people complain they can't build wonders on emperor anymore?
i know i complained about it and it took me a long time to realize why. i played purely peaceful games forever. going to war offensively early made all the civs choose different build orders when i thought it was only the one i was at war with. they'll still build them but not super-fast or super-often.
tommynt's style works great on higher difficulties but is just unfairly broken on lower ones. taking civ workers but not really going to war ive tried. it is quite effective but i wont make a habit of it. it might be a last resort on deity when i get back to that level. but im definitely going to early wars more often now.
i didnt do that in the france game. i took 1 CS worker, built Pyramids and later bought more when i had a lot of cities or took some when i was actually at war. took maybe 3 off hiawatha alone but it was in the mid-t100s. i was still quite short on them. i needed 5 or 6 early when i only had 3. but building roads in 2 turns at pyramids/liberty speed is really addictive.
VC is up to you. if you go dom you'll have to slow yourself down, haha, if you want to claim it was ICS. but really its up to you regardless of how many cities you settle. this is just for those that want to do more cities than normal and see what its like. someone did get a diplo vic which is nice. im going to try that myself w/egypt or arabia to avoid typical habits. ill have to focus more on science than i did with france.
The Pilgrim
Deity
Yes, that's probably one explanation. Although in my game everybody was fighting on multiple fronts and still building wonders. Also in 'Bolywood' game we had earlier, crazy Pacal was at war with everyone on our continent but me pretty much the whole time, which didn't conflict with his wonder spam at all.
I usually don't do this. Don't look for opportunity to steal a worker and most definitely don't sell stuff and DoW. But this time I did steal for several reasons: I only met two AI's and two CS early, was very short on cash, couldn't rush buy one and there was no guarantee I'd be able to improve the gold quickly due to barb activity (are they raging or something? gave me really hard times, so special thanks for this
). Second, when it's obvious we're going to war soon anyways, having 'free' worker on turn 15 is just too appealing. I don't necessarily believe it will soften immortal AI, neither I cared to go on with this war. As far as I was concerned, it was not a phony one. Actually, I wanted him to stay in 'war mode' and build military instead of settlers. And last but not the least, with all those barbs I knew I'd get easy quests from CS, so waiting until their worker appear much later in addition to losing a potential ally seemed very silly. I was thinking about Pyramids, but a thought it's all it was. Had no chance. They've gone before I finished NC. I rush bought few workers later and hard build a bunch in northern cities as well. Still had a shortage.
im not sure but i think the AI treats its intentions differently when players start warring. ive been in similar situations where AIs warmongering all over the place didnt prevent wonder-whoring but when i do it it seemed to. i havent done this enough times to have a conclusion though. im still in my early stages of new habits.
and i'll only steal an ai worker when i know they are going down by Construction or earlier, i.e. in the first 50-70 turns. or if im really crowded by more than 2 close irrational civs. and so far ive only done it in dom vics anyway. and a lot of the times they have 2-3 warriors and a city attack to get him back pretty quickly. the circumstances have to particular for me to try it. at deity i might have to cheese my through it though. i was barely winning deity pre-patch anyway and now its much tougher for me.
and i'll only steal an ai worker when i know they are going down by Construction or earlier, i.e. in the first 50-70 turns. or if im really crowded by more than 2 close irrational civs. and so far ive only done it in dom vics anyway. and a lot of the times they have 2-3 warriors and a city attack to get him back pretty quickly. the circumstances have to particular for me to try it. at deity i might have to cheese my through it though. i was barely winning deity pre-patch anyway and now its much tougher for me.
The Pilgrim
Deity
I think AI should treat humans differently, give them more 'credit' than to other AI. However, I'm not sure it's actually implemented and how exactly. But this is very interesting observation. I will try to pay more attention.
Of course, worker stealing is circumstantial. Even when you have the physical ability to execute it. I won't try this while being jammed between aggressive neighbors, because pissing them off before the time doesn't do me any good. On deity you face two cities that can shoot (and possibly more units), moreover, CS workers appear earlier. On immortal it's more viable, IMO. Super easy on lower levels, but there it's just plain cheese.
Of course, worker stealing is circumstantial. Even when you have the physical ability to execute it. I won't try this while being jammed between aggressive neighbors, because pissing them off before the time doesn't do me any good. On deity you face two cities that can shoot (and possibly more units), moreover, CS workers appear earlier. On immortal it's more viable, IMO. Super easy on lower levels, but there it's just plain cheese.
Beating ai is allways cheese. And as long as other mp players steal my workers i ll do same in singleplayer - its just part of the game - if u like it or not. Not doing it is like playing a 1. person shooter only with pistols instead available rifles. Some might enjoy the pistols - but I rather be big daddy and play best way possible - I dont tie 1 arm behind back when playing basketball either
Moriarte
Immortal
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 2,667
culture, obviously
Yeah I've always tried to spread this idea, hence why a number of my posts usually suggest picking up puppets when available. Now with the nerfed RA's, there is even less reason to stay super peaceful. Although the changes also made it easier to maintain friendly status, even as a warmonger, so either way...
But yeah, just compare an archipelago and pangaea map. I see wonders rushed all the time on island maps... AI gets bored when it can't expand, use its military, etc.
Between me and the usuals (Washington, Hiawatha, Catherine) I started playing on larger maps with more Civs this week. No fun when half the players are out of the game right from the start.
Anywho, on topic: I've been in an ICS mood anyway, so I will probably give the maps a chance later when I have more time.
The Pilgrim
Deity
And I don't tackle my 13 y.o. son or his friends, despite the fact they are much more competent at sports than AI is at Civ 5. That's how I operate. How others do is not my business. They're entitled to play in any way they like. Your desire to be the biggest daddy ever is hardly a secret, so feel free to keep it up.
RedRover57
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,014
Here's how I am on turn 198 after finishing off America and Siam (left them with one city each). I have 23 cities and room for one or 2 more. Diplo would probably be the easiest from here as domination will be a pain (would probably need to build a navy since this is more like a small continents map rather than pangaea) and science will take longer. Future plan would be to grow a few of my best cities and just crank out the beakers until Globalization. Not sure if I will bother finishing at this point as it's basically over and will just be a lot of clicking Next Turn. I would say that Arabia is almost as OP as the Mayans since it was so easy to conquer with the camel archers, and happiness and gold was never an issue.
Spoiler :
Moriarte
Immortal
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 2,667
The fact that it doesn't do You any good doesn't mean that someone else can't squeeze some good stuff out of it
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