The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
carl corey
Deity
Wow, this looks like a really tough battle! Can't wait for part II!
Neato
Dog Culture Advisor
Ridiculous!
Incredibly exciting, but I guess we aren't wiping Khan off the map anytime soon. Hope our cities in the southeast have some protection!
Incredibly exciting, but I guess we aren't wiping Khan off the map anytime soon. Hope our cities in the southeast have some protection!
oof you're in for a tough fight. but drafting will save you from this mess. as soon as you can start producing grenadiers you'll be fine.
what kind of defenses do you have in that city about to be attacked? if you can whip those walls and a pikeman you should take out those knights pretty easy.
good luck its going to be an exciting round!
NaZ
what kind of defenses do you have in that city about to be attacked? if you can whip those walls and a pikeman you should take out those knights pretty easy.
good luck its going to be an exciting round!
NaZ
You can't draft grenadiers though, so musketmen will have to do.
carl corey
Deity
Well, janissaries, not musketmen. He can draft janissaries for defense and build grens for attack. I wonder what's up that he didn't have the time to post the second part...
Neato
Dog Culture Advisor
Maybe it was that bad, and he doesn't want us to know.
carl corey
Deity
Neah, I bet that pesky "real" life intervened again. 
aelf
Ashen One
Yeah, sorry about that. Been busy with school these few days. The 2nd half will be up tomorrow, GMT.
Neato
Dog Culture Advisor
aelf
Ashen One
Meh, first year doesn't count towards my degree anyway 
aelf
Ashen One
[continued from previous page]
Our troops went bravely to battle in Beshebalik, storming the city, it seemed, against the odds:
This is when I realised that trebs can pwn rifles. The losses we sustained were fewer than expected, and we were in a decent position to attempt a march against Karakorum after our stack has healed (aided by our Medic III GG). And, as a reward, we got the Jewish shrine, which makes about 30 gpt
Meanwhile, Roosevelt came by to offer a trade:
That's pretty handy, considering we might face some WW soon.
A few turns later, we finished researching Chemistry. Unfortunately, since grenadiers can't be drafted, it would be at least several turns before we can put any of them into action.
While deciding what to research next, I decided to see what we can trade for. I approached Roosevelt looking for a deal:
I think that's pretty alright, so I accepted it. A good backfill. I decided to research Steel next, since we might be needing cannons soon.
Back to the war. The attack on Sakae happened next. Thanks to the walls and castle, and after several rounds of valiant combat and a few losses, our garrison troops held off the attackers. A lot of them either didn't attack or survived, though. Here is what remained of the stack:
I also got rid of the few pillaging knights with our own knights, though with a few more losses. Sakae is safe for now.
Shaka was the next person to visit, offering another trade:
Sure, why not? He can let his hair down a bit while we're busy with his friend Khan.
Once our stack had healed, we left a few Janissaries and a pikeman for defense (a little light, I know, but I didn't have a choice) at Beshebalik and marched on to Karakorum. It was a tougher battle, as you would expect, as we faced about 5 riflemen this time. Still, trebs can indeed pwn rifles, and we won:
Unfortunately, we suffered more losses this time and our stack was in no condition to take another city. That, and the fact that Beshebalik was attacked by a few riflemen, which wore our garrison thin, encouraged me to sue for peace.
Even though he'd lost his capital, Khan didn't think we have weakened him enough and demanded Karakorum back for peace. He refused to sign a plain peace treaty, but he agreed when I threw Liberalism into the deal:
Oh, well. It's not a very crucial tech. Buying peace for now, while we build grenadiers, is more important than keeping it from Khan. I didn't want to risk losing the cities we just captured.
Now that we've riled up Khan, I didn't see the point of keeping our state religion. Besides, Free Religion would be helpful to speed up our all-important research. I also switched our economic civic to Mercantilism, now that we had Banking:
Free Religion also had the positive effect of improving relations with the overseas civs, so that chances are none of them would be tempted to declare a pointless but troublesome intercontinental war on us (thinking of Monty here). The extra Representation specialist in all our cities, meanwhile, would further boost research (or production, if it's an engineer). Not to mention the extra GPP in our GP farm and capital (which ran an engineer for GEs later).
And this is where I stopped playing. The current state world technological advancement:
We have Liberalism on Huayna, Nationalism on Khan, nothing on Roosevelt and Philosophy, Chemistry and Education on Monty. Shaka is well behind.
The power graph:
Not a rosy picture there. We haven't really gained ground relative to Khan.
The good news is our production graph:
We are second to only Roosevelt and higher than Khan. Let's hope we can turn this to our advantage.
Here's the map of our continent:
We've divided Khan's empire into 2. The good thing is he would not be able to concentrate his forces. The bad thing is our recently conquered cities are open to attack on both sides. We can, however, theoretically ease the pressure on one side by directing our attack there. Since Khan's stack that we've seen is probably in the east, we should attack there next.
But there are a few complications. First, due to the shape of the continent, we are not able to address the eastern question in one fell swoop. Samarqand and Sanchu are to the SE, a little out of the way. They are also marginal cities. However, they could also serve as staging grounds for attacks on Karakorum. This has me tempted to address the western question first, where we at least have a clearer picture. Besides, Beshebalik seems to be the one under constant threat due to its position, with the Mongolian border coming right up to it in the west. Maybe we can return to the east in the future, when we are in a much stronger position relative to Khan.
Second, there's the possibility of Khan getting cavalry. Now, we have grenadiers to fight riflemen (even then that doesn't apply defensively), but cavalry is a whole new problem. A few cavalry might be warded off by enough pikemen, but remember the stack that was not entirely destroyed? If Khan upgrades those knights into cavalry, we will have a big problem. Our only hope might be to declare war ASAP. Hopefully, with two his biggest cities down, Khan won't be able to get there soon enough. With that in mind, we probably won't be able to wait for cannons and might have to continue relying on trebuchets (which seem reliable enough so far). However, with grenadiers helping us this time (upgrading a few of our CR maces might be in order), it might not be much of an issue. This is the biggest problem I can foresee in the near future, short of Khan getting infantry.
The map of the other continent:
Monty has gained ground at Huayna's expense here. However, he might eventually be defeated by Roosevelt anyway, looking at the situation. Let's hope Monty will put up a good fight and save us from having to compete with a(nother) giant. That is if we survive and win our own battle in the near future.
Yup, so that's it for now. I've discussed our war plans. Research-wise, we're still researching Steel. We have a GS that can lightbulb Printing Press. Rifling is a bit too far away to think about, but should we make a diversion to Printing Press now to improve our economy? With the GS lightbulbing part of it, it might not take very long.
Our troops went bravely to battle in Beshebalik, storming the city, it seemed, against the odds:
This is when I realised that trebs can pwn rifles. The losses we sustained were fewer than expected, and we were in a decent position to attempt a march against Karakorum after our stack has healed (aided by our Medic III GG). And, as a reward, we got the Jewish shrine, which makes about 30 gpt
Meanwhile, Roosevelt came by to offer a trade:
That's pretty handy, considering we might face some WW soon.
A few turns later, we finished researching Chemistry. Unfortunately, since grenadiers can't be drafted, it would be at least several turns before we can put any of them into action.
While deciding what to research next, I decided to see what we can trade for. I approached Roosevelt looking for a deal:
I think that's pretty alright, so I accepted it. A good backfill. I decided to research Steel next, since we might be needing cannons soon.
Back to the war. The attack on Sakae happened next. Thanks to the walls and castle, and after several rounds of valiant combat and a few losses, our garrison troops held off the attackers. A lot of them either didn't attack or survived, though. Here is what remained of the stack:
I also got rid of the few pillaging knights with our own knights, though with a few more losses. Sakae is safe for now.
Shaka was the next person to visit, offering another trade:
Sure, why not? He can let his hair down a bit while we're busy with his friend Khan.
Once our stack had healed, we left a few Janissaries and a pikeman for defense (a little light, I know, but I didn't have a choice) at Beshebalik and marched on to Karakorum. It was a tougher battle, as you would expect, as we faced about 5 riflemen this time. Still, trebs can indeed pwn rifles, and we won:
Unfortunately, we suffered more losses this time and our stack was in no condition to take another city. That, and the fact that Beshebalik was attacked by a few riflemen, which wore our garrison thin, encouraged me to sue for peace.
Even though he'd lost his capital, Khan didn't think we have weakened him enough and demanded Karakorum back for peace. He refused to sign a plain peace treaty, but he agreed when I threw Liberalism into the deal:
Oh, well. It's not a very crucial tech. Buying peace for now, while we build grenadiers, is more important than keeping it from Khan. I didn't want to risk losing the cities we just captured.
Now that we've riled up Khan, I didn't see the point of keeping our state religion. Besides, Free Religion would be helpful to speed up our all-important research. I also switched our economic civic to Mercantilism, now that we had Banking:
Free Religion also had the positive effect of improving relations with the overseas civs, so that chances are none of them would be tempted to declare a pointless but troublesome intercontinental war on us (thinking of Monty here). The extra Representation specialist in all our cities, meanwhile, would further boost research (or production, if it's an engineer). Not to mention the extra GPP in our GP farm and capital (which ran an engineer for GEs later).
And this is where I stopped playing. The current state world technological advancement:
We have Liberalism on Huayna, Nationalism on Khan, nothing on Roosevelt and Philosophy, Chemistry and Education on Monty. Shaka is well behind.
The power graph:
Not a rosy picture there. We haven't really gained ground relative to Khan.
The good news is our production graph:
We are second to only Roosevelt and higher than Khan. Let's hope we can turn this to our advantage.
Here's the map of our continent:
We've divided Khan's empire into 2. The good thing is he would not be able to concentrate his forces. The bad thing is our recently conquered cities are open to attack on both sides. We can, however, theoretically ease the pressure on one side by directing our attack there. Since Khan's stack that we've seen is probably in the east, we should attack there next.
But there are a few complications. First, due to the shape of the continent, we are not able to address the eastern question in one fell swoop. Samarqand and Sanchu are to the SE, a little out of the way. They are also marginal cities. However, they could also serve as staging grounds for attacks on Karakorum. This has me tempted to address the western question first, where we at least have a clearer picture. Besides, Beshebalik seems to be the one under constant threat due to its position, with the Mongolian border coming right up to it in the west. Maybe we can return to the east in the future, when we are in a much stronger position relative to Khan.
Second, there's the possibility of Khan getting cavalry. Now, we have grenadiers to fight riflemen (even then that doesn't apply defensively), but cavalry is a whole new problem. A few cavalry might be warded off by enough pikemen, but remember the stack that was not entirely destroyed? If Khan upgrades those knights into cavalry, we will have a big problem. Our only hope might be to declare war ASAP. Hopefully, with two his biggest cities down, Khan won't be able to get there soon enough. With that in mind, we probably won't be able to wait for cannons and might have to continue relying on trebuchets (which seem reliable enough so far). However, with grenadiers helping us this time (upgrading a few of our CR maces might be in order), it might not be much of an issue. This is the biggest problem I can foresee in the near future, short of Khan getting infantry.
The map of the other continent:
Monty has gained ground at Huayna's expense here. However, he might eventually be defeated by Roosevelt anyway, looking at the situation. Let's hope Monty will put up a good fight and save us from having to compete with a(nother) giant. That is if we survive and win our own battle in the near future.
Yup, so that's it for now. I've discussed our war plans. Research-wise, we're still researching Steel. We have a GS that can lightbulb Printing Press. Rifling is a bit too far away to think about, but should we make a diversion to Printing Press now to improve our economy? With the GS lightbulbing part of it, it might not take very long.
JujuLautre
Deity
I can't open the save and have to go back working, but I was wondering: is there an easy way to get horses out of gengis hands? That way, he couldn't upgrade to cav even if he gets MT
I've removed Warlords from my PC so I Can't check the save file but is it possible to pillage Khan's Horses?
can you upgrade Knights to Cavalry if you don't have horses? I know that I can't upgrade archer to Crossobows or Horse Archer to Knights if I don't have Iron...
Ah well just an Idea to prevent a Stack of Cavalry eliminating you.
can you upgrade Knights to Cavalry if you don't have horses? I know that I can't upgrade archer to Crossobows or Horse Archer to Knights if I don't have Iron...
Ah well just an Idea to prevent a Stack of Cavalry eliminating you.
Nice game so far, aelf. Impressing how you kept on warring and didn't fortify until peace. Riflemen obsoleted your UU as well as maces now are nearly useless.
Grens vs rifles it'll be next, so lots of fun coming
Waiting for the next update
Grens vs rifles it'll be next, so lots of fun coming
Waiting for the next update
You don't seem to have many cottages, so that would make PP rather ineffective. However, it seems the former Mongolian cities do have cottages, so maybe PP is worth it. War Elephant work well against Cavalry too (if you have ivory).
If you fear Khan still has large stacks, you could declare on him and let him come to your territory to kill him. Note that catapults are better than trebs in that case. (higher base strength).
If you fear Khan still has large stacks, you could declare on him and let him come to your territory to kill him. Note that catapults are better than trebs in that case. (higher base strength).
Fetch
When in doubt, reboot.
You may want to forgo attacking Turfan (The pop 5 city in the East). If you take Kahn's other Eastern cities, he'll likely give it to you in a peace deal, like Shaka did earlier. It's too cut off from the rest of his lands.
aelf
Ashen One
Fortunately, Janissaries were not entirely useless, since they were about the best we had against riflemen. Also, they were all-round good units, both effective and flexible at defense and offense, unlike pikemen. And they are draftable.
About pillaging Khan's horses, I'll have a look at it. But something tells me he'll just find a way to trade for them instead.
About pillaging Khan's horses, I'll have a look at it. But something tells me he'll just find a way to trade for them instead.
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
It was really impressive to take a chunk out of Genghis's empire, including his capital, even when fighting from a technological and numerical disadvantage.
aelf
Ashen One
I just checked the save. Khan doesn't seem to have horses within his borders anymore, but that might not stop the AI, since it is likely to trade for it. We can hope, though...
Any more takes on whether going for PP now would be better? There is maybe a dozen tiles or a few more that would benefit from it.
Any more takes on whether going for PP now would be better? There is maybe a dozen tiles or a few more that would benefit from it.
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