The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix

So, aelf, about the time when you switched from fishies to a lake... there's absolutely no point in that, since you can just check avoid growth and gain the extra food. If you wanted to maximize benefits without growing, you could changed from the wheat tile to a silk tile: that is, lose 3 food, gain 1 production 1 commerce, as opposed to losing 3 food and gaining nothing.

I'd go one step further and say grow into unhappiness. Who cares if you have an angry citizen, he can be whipped for hammers or put to work if you get an extra happy face. You basically threw away 3F/turn.

Anyway, unless you have reason to believe the fog in B has a Fish resource, I'd settle A, but if you are settling B move one west since at least it picks up a floodplain for food. I would also settle one south of C. Forget the Gold, you aren't working it and this way you pull in more Grassland tiles. You've got a while to decide on this spot though, it is useless until you have Iron Working and many more Workers. You rolled a seriously bad start being hemmed in by Shaka and Genghis/Jungle, and without a lot of food.

edit: Oops...you already played. It is nice you didn't die ;).

Darrell
 
I meant you might die if you tried to chariot rush and failed to take out his copper. Surviving diplomatically is almost always viable.
 
So, aelf, about the time when you switched from fishies to a lake... there's absolutely no point in that, since you can just check avoid growth and gain the extra food. If you wanted to maximize benefits without growing, you could changed from the wheat tile to a silk tile: that is, lose 3 food, gain 1 production 1 commerce, as opposed to losing 3 food and gaining nothing.
Actually better still would have been to work a plains forest or hill forest instead of the wheat. The silk switch would have only gained 1c

And thing about chariot rushing shaka, if he has copper he might be inclined to build his unique unit.
Yes I also think a chariot rush is dangerous as the AI does tend to overbuild their UU.
Once you get the horse connected you need to build a few anyway--I'd scout aggressively to see where the copper is and if he's got it.
 
Do you even have to rush anybody?
Yes you drew bad opponents but I'm generally not a big fan of rushing when I'm on a continent with 2 AI unless I have to. You really give up a lot in terms of trading (although this isn't a great trading pair), and risk getting dogpiled once you start the war in this situation.
You can way outtech these guys if you play nice and get the 'mids--then see how they do against your superior units.
 
This is immortal, you need strategic resources to survive. I would take a gambit and settle on the commerce city, then research iron working to pray for iron in good spot or some other advanced tech, like COL, and then REX while building archers. Your traits scream granary then courthouse, whipped.
 
I'm sorry, guys, I won't be able to post an update this weekend. I'll be in Brighton for a mock UN conference as the delegate for the Kingdom of Swaziland (always Coca Cola! :p). I'll probably post the update sometime in the middle of next week.
 
Round 2: 2260BC - 925BC

We went full steam ahead with the settler to settle the horse city 1W of site B:

immortal21.jpg


Even if we're not going to invade Shaka with chariots, it's better to grab strategic resources first before it's too late. We slow-built the settler, though, since there was not very efficient to whip it for 1 pop and it would only take 4 more turns anyway.

Research-wise, we went for Masonry. As soon as we got it, we could hook up the stone and start on the Pyramids. Having the Pyramids for Representation would be neat, and if we're not going to rush, it would be even more important to give us some edge over other civs. Our exploring warrior was already heading towards Zululand to check up on Shaka's military situation so that we could decide on rushing or not.

Once the settler was done, we started on another worker:

immortal22.jpg


The horses needed to be hooked up asap if we were going to invade (chariots would be good defence against barbs, in any case) and, at the same time, hooking up the stone was another major (and slow) project that we needed to get started on soon. Some pre-chopping and improvement-building were also in order, so a second worker would be very helpful.

And so we built our second city:

immortal23.jpg


Everything went without a hitch, and so the horses could be hooked up soon.

We discovered Masonry soon. I decided to research Writing next. There are a number of reasons for this. First, I wanted to build libraries to get some culture (since we're not researching Mysticism anytime soon) and run scientists (to help with research, especially when we need to slow growth down in our cities). Secondly, I wanted to get Open Borders signed asap, not only to explore Shaka and Genghis' lands, but also to start building more cordial relationships with them so that they were less likely to invade us before we could do anything. Lastly, and this is closely related to the first reason, if we were going to run Representation soon thanks to the Pyramids, being able to run scientists would significantly boost our research capability.

I know at least some of you would be rooting for Pottery next. But being in Representation also suggests less whipping so granaries wouldn't play such a central role. Of course, all this depended whether we actually managed to get the Pyramids or not...

Our recon warrior reached Shaka's border, and guess what...

immortal24.jpg


Looks like our rush has to be called off. Turned out that Shaka's capital itself was sitting on the only source of copper we've seen so far.

Anyway, since our build queue for improvements was getting longer, I decided to build yet another warrior and timed the build for a good whip. For that, we needed to switch to Slavery:

immortal25.jpg


And then it was time to crack the whip just as our capital grew into unhappiness:

immortal26.jpg


Pretty soon, we had both horses and stone hooked up and our workers were all busy building improvements or chopping for the Pyramids. And chop all the trees we did:

immortal27.jpg


Give me Pyramids or give me death! With a rush now impossible, I don't think our game would get anywhere without them.

And, as you can also see from the screenshot, since horses wouldn't be too effective for holding off an invasion, I decided to research Iron Working after Writing. We had better grab some iron before it's too late.

Things seemed to be smoothly and we were soon about to complete the Pyramids:

immortal28.jpg


I whipped the last bit, just in case. And in exactly 1000 BC:

immortal29.jpg


Nice! Now let's have a Representative government for the good of our civilization:

immortal30.jpg


That gave our cities the very useful boost of +2 happiness. And with the bonus beakers for specialists, I ran a scientist in Edirne, which had built a library, to help speed up our crucial research:

immortal31.jpg


The city did not have the prospect of quick growth anyway, and our capital was working food tiles to grow back the whipped population, so why not put it to good use in the meantime?

Iron Working was soon discovered. Fortunately for us, there's a source of iron pretty nearby to the southeast:

immortal32.jpg


And this is where I stopped. I have shown the top half of the known world above. This is the bottom half:

immortal33.jpg


It seems reasonable to assume that our continent is not much bigger than that and we only have Genghis and Shaka to share it with. Not the best people on Earth, unfortunately.

Here's an overview of our relations with them:

immortal34.jpg


Or, rather, the lack of relations. Hopefully the Open Border agreements will make them more amiable soon for the safety of our civilization.

So what next? It seems pretty clear that we need to settle a city to grab the iron next. Again, I have highlighted two possible sites:

immortal35.jpg


Site A is closer and has fewer coastal tiles, but site B has the pretty significant advantage of immediately availing the cow and wheat tiles to our new city. Maybe we can have it 1S of either sites to get more grassland and lose the coastal tile(s), but we don't get to work the cows until the borders have expanded. I also highlight the commerce city site (C) again, since settling it might be in order soon now that we can chop those jungles.

And what about research? I'm quite sure most will recommend Pottery next for granaries. But then what? Do we want Maths for better chopping and the Hammam? Or should we go for Alphabet to start trading techs with our neighbours?

Since rushing is not an option now, I think we would most likely pursue a builder path until Construction. But that might be in the round after the next. The engineer might be born quite soon, though. What should we use him for? Should we research towards the Great Library and use him for that? Or should we use him for some other wonder, such as the conveniently placed Hanging Gardens for even more GE points? Or, should we settle him a la Obsolete, keeping the Representation bonus in mind?

Plenty of things to decide on that should stimulate an interesting discussion.
 

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I believe that 1S of B is a good site. It doesn't catch all those water tiles in a non-coastal city, and it puts a wheat and a plains forest in the city's radius to help with getting that monument out. It also avoids that peak and one of the deserts while gaining more grassland (and I think I also see an additional grassland hill).
 
Looking like your in a pretty tough spot Aelf. The quicker you can get some defence the better. I can just see Shaka's Impis screaming to have a go at your Chariots.
 
I agree on settling one south of site B. all those sea squares in the sugested city's makes it realy bad. you shold make two settlers at a rappid pace now, first settle iron city. I sugest you reserch mystesism and bring some workers along to choop a monumen. you need that iron asap.

edit. you could also settle one south of site A this will get you iron directly. I belive that city is the best so you can get some defence. we all know shaka, he always gearing for war. and this is imortal. so the question is probably not if he will attack but when.
 
Oh, yes, forgot to mention that site B (or 1S) doesn't get the iron in the first ring.
 
1S of A - allows instant iron hookup and you'll end up with wheat and cow without being 1 tile from the coast. I didn't load the game, so unless there is some compelling reason not to hook up iron instantly and end up with 2 food reasources, I'd definately go with it.

Whatever you have to do, get Shaka and Genghis into a war with each other, join in one one side, and help kill the other. They're going to attack someone - better make sure it's not you.
 
Engineer on the Gardens seems like a waste. You're expansive so health is unlikely to be a big issue, and if you still want it you can probably build it normally with the stone. GL is a much better use although settling could be good depending on how long the gap between birth and Literature is going to be.
 
Should C be 1SE so that it grab more territory?
 
As for the GE, I'd probably Settle him, especially since you have Representation and he'd give you an extra 3H towards building the Hanging Gardens, which should be relatively cheap since you have stone.

My other option is to save him to bulb Machinery, if you Beeline MC after Construction... you can counter all your opponents Melee units with ease.
 
C looks fine as it is, I would probably take 1S of A, you can work the iron while building the monument.
 


Let's look at my city D, almost all tiles are green. while city C' could use capital's pig to feed the gold tile and share the gem tile with D.

your current city C lacks food and has to irrigate some grassland tiles to get food.

i had thoughts on settling upon the gem to get immediate benefit to the happiness cap, but since we have iron working, it would be wasteful to settle on the gem.

another vote for 1S of B, working on the wheat then chop and whip a library would not be very different.

city E would be food rich, shall we claim it?

cann't open save, because i've updated to BTS.
 
Since rushing is not an option now, I think we would most likely pursue a builder path until Construction. But that might be in the round after the next. The engineer might be born quite soon, though. What should we use him for? Should we research towards the Great Library and use him for that? Or should we use him for some other wonder, such as the conveniently placed Hanging Gardens for even more GE points? Or, should we settle him a la Obsolete, keeping the Representation bonus in mind?

Plenty of things to decide on that should stimulate an interesting discussion.

Given that you are heading for Iron, consider researching Pottery and Metal Casting so you can lightbulb Machinery. This would give you Crossbows, which would open up the option of war with Shaka again.

This also opens up the southern route to Gunpowder, but that's not a common way to play and would be tough to beeline with techs like Monarchy, Feudalism, and Guilds necessary to get to Gunpowder.
 
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