The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #23 Assyria

I got a slow run for t175 DomV. Slowly but surely chewed through civs and still had Siege Towers for 50% city attack bonus, but apparently it only works if the Siege Tower is near the city. If it's behind archers, the bonus won't work. I built one army to take Washington and 3 dudes in the East, and then another army which went north, and at the end they converged and slowly progressed into Greece: carpet vs carpet.

I watched Acken's Aztec ICL recently where he went textbook Moriarte, so I was channeling Acken channeling Moriarte. I think I did a good job with pillage-repair and building roads to my future victims, but I got lazy towards the end.
 

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@Acken

It depends on the map I guess... Liberty seems however to be the fastest and safest early game but I really missed the fast promotions and extra gold from honor.

What SP did you pick in this game to get your amazing victory?
 
Liberty and rushed Machu Pichu because my gpt was terrible as I wasn't exploiting pillage. I feel the fast promotions aren't necessary on Immortal, the AI doesn't make big carpets of units. Same thing for the gold per kill. I can actually see Honor be of more use in a long and slow war with crossbows on Deity than on lower difficulties.
 
I agree completely. Liberty is my go-to for Immortal and Honor for Deity. The amount of GPT that you can use for more unit snowball in the Industrial is perfect for finishing Deity games and totally overkill on Immortal.
 
By the way, nobody ever DoW'ed me... but I war very methodically and strategically: pit AI's against each other to make sure nobody is friends, snatch out conquered cities to myself, suppress AI's, and get CS allies where I need. For example, Sidon took good care of Alex and was worth all the investment.

The UA is pretty fun. I think it can be used for early conquest and otherwise peaceful play. I think I could have taken out Washington and just moved my army over the mountains to deflect attacks from Oda or Harald at the Kilimanjaro city, or even go liberate Copenhagen or maybe taken Willy's Western city with Citrus. Babylon is not really that attractive because it has nearly no resources and only Ivory, which the Krakatoa city has access to anyway.

Also, those city names. Dur-Kurigalzu, Kar-Tukulti-Ninurta, Dur-Sharrukin. Got me all thinking about Dol Guldur, Minas Tirith, and Nazguls. :lol:
 
Liberty and rushed Machu Pichu because my gpt was terrible as I wasn't exploiting pillage. I feel the fast promotions aren't necessary on Immortal, the AI doesn't make big carpets of units. Same thing for the gold per kill. I can actually see Honor be of more use in a long and slow war with crossbows on Deity than on lower difficulties.
I saw you get Machu in the Aztec video, so I went for it, too, and got it. I don't even remember what it looks like, since it's never available on Deity. :lol: It didn't really help that much, but what helped was Wagon Trains from Commerce. I also picked Initiation Rites, and those American cities started converting, plus I sent some missionaries.
 
T187 You can see the attack power of a cannon vs a city. Using just one army, I should finish in the 210 to 220 range with still a few hours work to do in the north..

My social policies were Open Tradition>Full Liberty w Oracle> to Monarchy. Now I am opening Exploration for the happiness sice I have several coastal cities. I picked that path because I wasnt sure I was going to go domination...

Spoiler :
812895FF17E045F0E9AEEC140E797F79A84BF899
 
Yeah cannons are often enough, sometimes even on Deity. I'm hoping to finish even before Cannons, though it won't be as quick as Acken.
 
Yeah cannons are often enough, sometimes even on Deity. I'm hoping to finish even before Cannons, though it won't be as quick as Acken.

You gotta love that Siege Tower. The trick is keeping some around long enough. I'm down to just one now. Sooner or later, the cities will be able to 1 shot if I'm not careful about attack sequence.
 
T172 Domination

Spoiler :
A really fun sweep, though not as fast as I would have liked cuz Harald ended up building Alhambra a turn before I began my assault, and berserkers fare quite well against XBs and he had a few forests stopping line of sight. Still, a relentless assault finished with me taking his capital with one of my 2 super-upgraded siege towers. I just wish they cut the mustard on Deity :cry:
 
I see you have about 10 XBs and a couple sieges and meatshields, was that your only spearhead or did you split? Also, I'm hoping to join in the Ottomans sweep but I can't promise to be able to keep up with the pace, I hope that won't be an issue
 
IIRC, about half of that mass was responsible for the previous 6 5 capitals, and about half of it was reinforcements sent over from
Spoiler :
Kyoto
and the fatherland in the previous 10 turns, in case it was harder than it was. Not much you can do once you realise you're not gonna need cannons except sell the universities and spam units. Mind you, a good number were also gifted by the military CS, whom I invested wisely in. One was giving
Spoiler :
Kris Swordsman and I was lucky enough to get two with the +1 movement and extra attack promotion :)

EDIT: There was a split.
Spoiler :
Washington
was taken the same turn. I sent 3 range XBs and a few knights down there to punish
Spoiler :
GW
for his T100ish backstab
 
t100
Spoiler :
I will enthusiastically concur that ST are da bomb! I almost took New York with 2 Archers and a Spear, sheesh, but then a barb Axe showed up and I needed a 3rd Archer. I started testing Washington with a ST and Archers, a Spear and Warrior, when Neb DOW'd me with the largest mil. (I guess I should have paid more attention to all his starting Warriors doing a Bungle In The Jungle.) So I had to send most of my army N, and started to upgrade to CBs. He got my cap down a bit, but I chased them all back, and started to set up for a siege of Babylon, when USA built the GW. Reverse course, men!

Long tromp back S, he only had the one hill in his borders, I had earlier citadeled his horsies. Built a 2nd ST, who didn't even get in the fight. Just one ST, a Spear, then 1, 2, and finally 3 CBs to take Washington t97. Dummy left a GG unguarded the turn our peace deal expired.

Full Honor, L side first, and unbelievably got 2 culture ruins (plus Spear, 55g, pop (just before I grew) and Pottery (1 turn away)). NYC cap gave me Masonry 2 turns away, so very unlucky with the tech goodies, tho Washington gave Currency. Stole a worker from USA very early, I wasn't going to do any, but he was just standing there! I was going to settle my 2nd city 1 NE of NYC, but he beat me to it. Settled 3rd city on the gold, as happy was in the tank, and I only had the one Worker a long time.

My pop and science is awful, NC in 11 turns, only 1 Caravan to ally Milan. Assur has been working 3 mines most of the game, just now getting more farms. Took God-King as I figured I'd get no religion, but only 2 went by t97 so I built some Shrines. Took Engineering before CS path to build Aqueducts, probably a big mistake, but this is Immortal. Utrecht is building me Machu, I wonder if he'll get it - no lux though, sheesh.. DoF with Bill-O for now. Hard to sell horsies, already have some mild hate brewing. Will likely take Babylon next then go E. Maybe wait and see if he builds more than just Parthenon.
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Interesting. Acken and consentient left Harald for last. I usually go after warmongers first. Not really feeling like dealing with a carpet of berserkers. Haile Selassie had 20 defense city on t150 or something and an archer, but he quickly upped it up once I approached.


I see you have about 10 XBs and a couple sieges and meatshields, was that your only spearhead or did you split? Also, I'm hoping to join in the Ottomans sweep but I can't promise to be able to keep up with the pace, I hope that won't be an issue
What's the Ottomans sweep?
 
Interesting. Acken and consentient left Harald for last. I usually go after warmongers first. Not really feeling like dealing with a carpet of berserkers. Haile Selassie had 20 defense city on t150 or something and an archer, but he quickly upped it up once I approached.



What's the Ottomans sweep?

Consentient brewed (or is currently brewing) an Ottomans map for a H-C-A LP, by the popular demand. For him, target practice, for me, another attempt of not-turtling
 
t101-135
Spoiler :
Awfully nice of Oda to take down Copenhagen t105, and then leave only a Cat behind! It even went 2 tiles to steal my Worker. I was able to march most of my army past Kilimanjaro, Copenhagen fell t120 with SH and Optics. Cash has been OK, so I was able to ally Colombo. 15 pop Kyoto was a little trickier, I almost lost a ST, fell t133 to only 2 ST (one just taking damage) and 4 CB. Pretty silly. Got IW. Sniped another GG with a Horsie first, why are they so often unprotected, even when at war?

Alex took out Amsterdam about when Oda took Copenhagen. I am now doing a counter-clockwise move. Greece will be much more difficult, but I will have some decent XB by then. Still nobody with Log as the fights haven't lasted very long. Still haven't cash bought any units, waiting for Landsies in 6 turns.

Uni in Assur next turns, haven't even started them in my expos. My growth is a joke! Those 2 early culture ruins are really paying off - although I did have to burn Liberty opener before opening Commerce. Not such a bad thing.
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Interesting. Acken and consentient left Harald for last. I usually go after warmongers first. Not really feeling like dealing with a carpet of berserkers. Haile Selassie had 20 defense city on t150 or something and an archer, but he quickly upped it up once I approached.

What's the Ottomans sweep?

Well for me Washington has to go down first, he is in a very hard position to attack so as soon as ST are there he had to be killed. Also I had a spearman and a archer occupying the marble spot so that he never settles there.

Then babylon Dowed me so I went north. A second army was supposed to take down Harald but with the GW it took longer and as a result I accepted a peace deal for one of his front city and went for Japan meanwhile. The first army during that time took all the rest so only Harald was left.
 
CV T270

Spoiler :


Relaxed and peaceful 3 city CV. Nobody declared war on me. And surprisingly I was friends with Babylon pretty much the whole game despite initial worker steals from him, usually he does not want to be friends in my games.
Got unlucky with WLTKD, could not get truffles till T200+.
In the end I used a few GM in Babylonian lands since he had the strongest culture of all AIs. WF was won by me, IG just started but did not need them.

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t384 SV

This is just my 2nd Immortal game win. I have played a lot of CiV but still feel like I have lots to learn. I loved this game. I had planned on a domination win but I ended up turtling and winning a science victory...

Spoiler :

I settled next to the mountain. River + Mountain, awesome! My 2nd city was GOING to be south on top of the Gems next to the mountain but expansive America got there first. I was mad! I ended up settling my 2nd city to the west next to the mountains with Krakatoa 2 tiles away.

3rd city was to the east near Denmark inbetween a hill and river to get Citrus, Incense and Mt. Kilimanjaro in the 3rd ring. The city was in pretty open land and not great for defending which had me nervous.

I got a 4th city later - see the Social Policy section for the craziness of that city!

I can’t remember a game where I’ve had 2 natural wonders within my borders. So that was fun. I also didn’t realise Mt. Kilimanjaro gave you the defence and movement bonuses. So all my units went for a trip to Mt. Kilimanjaro!

As mentioned, I had planned to go domination but being hemmed in between America and Babylon changed this. I was scared that if I went to war against Babylon that America would war me unarmed. In hindsight I probably should have warred with America first to prevent a threat from multiple directions. I really don’t have much experience with domination wins. Looking at my Hall of Fame I only have 1 domination win and that was on Prince out of 20 or so games! Need work in this area.

I remained friends with Netherlands, America and Ethiopia for most of the game. America got pissed late but never DoW on me. Greece was Greece, I’m glad Babylon was there as a buffer. Babylon and I were friends very late in the game. He was my main threat military and science wise.

Denmark DoW me twice. Once early and late. I fended off his first attack but his second included planes which I hadn’t really dealt with before. I think I built anti-aircraft units for its actual purpose for the first time ever in a game. I really enjoyed defending my territory. I thought going Honor was a waste of time initially but those two wars proved it was worth it.

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There wasn’t a lot more action than that. I made Japan and Denmark fight each other a fair bit so they could occupy themselves and ignore me. I did the same with Babylon and Greece when it seemed Babylon might decide to declare war on me.

Ended up with a Science Victory at turn 384. Not breaking any records anytime soon but happy with my 2nd Immortal win :)

Build Order:
Scout
Monument
Shrine - to get Tears of the Gods
Worker - I should have gone Granary first in hindsight
Granary
Archer
Settler

Tech Order:
My plan was to get to the Royal Library and Siege Tower quickly to utilise Assyria’s strengths. My initial plan was to go to war but that didn’t really eventuate…

Pottery - to get to Royal Library
Archery - kind of a mistake as I was fiddling with the tech screen and I must have beelined somewhere
Mining - for the gems/happiness
Animal Husbandary - for pasture/horse reveal
Bronze Working - for iron reveal
Writing - for UB
The Wheel - to get to Mathemetics for UU
Mathematics - for UU + Hanging Gardens
Drama and Poetry - for culture/writers to put in Royal Libraries for experienced units
etc etc. I can show you my entire tech order if interested!

Social Policies:
Full Tradition
Full Honor
Switched between Freedom Ideology and Rationalism, eventually finishing Rationalism.

Turn 246 - America beat me by 1 turn to the first to establish an ideology. They went Order so I did too to remain at peace. Then Babylon went Freedom and shook my happiness about so I changed to Freedom.

REALLY COOL THING HAPPENED >> New York FLIPPED to my Civilization. I didn’t even know this was a thing in CiV. I thought it was a bug initially. It caused really bad unhappiness and if I didn’t get silver in the International Games which gave me 30 influence with all city states it would have been a real problem. It caused 25+ unhappiness to puppet or 35 odd to burn/annex. So I made it a puppet. Also got the achievement "Tear Down this Wall!" which requires you to "Force an AI player with the Order Ideology to switch to Freedom." Absolute fluke!

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In hindsight I should have finished Rationalism first for the research agreement boost and also purchasing scientists with faith. I just wasn’t sure on the timing to get Space Procurements to purchase spaceship parts. I also had to switch my Ideology from Order to Freedom to prevent unhappiness which cost me two established tenets.

FYI at turn 384 I had a total of 27 Social Policies/tenets established

Religion:
Tears of the Gods - for all the Gems nearby
Tithe - for $$
Pagodas - for happy
Religious Texts
Holy Warriors - for units and my initial plan to war!

Wonders Built:
Hanging Gardens
Hagia Sophia
Borobudur
(Denmark beat me to Leaning Tower of Pisa)
Porcelain Tower
Eiffel Tower
Neuschwanstein
Hubble Space Telescope
Pentagon - great combo with Honor - Professional Army SP
Sydney Opera House

Great People:
7 Great Writers
5 Great Musicians
5 Great Artists
12+ Great scientists (lost count)
2 Great engineers

I learnt that great people points for new scientists (for example) continue to go up even if they’re free. (ie if in the same turn it’s 1000GPP to get next great scientist and I build Hubble Telescope which gives 2 free great scientists it will make the cost of the next great scientist cost 1200, not 1000).
Also learnt that faith costs for great people are separate and don’t scale with GPP or eras.


During the playthrough I wrote down a lot of questions. If you were able to answer any I would be most appreciative! There are many :blush:

Spoiler :

Q: What does ‘combat likely to produce great general’ mean? What’s the rate for the Great General I and Great General II promotions?

Q: What does accepting embassy’s do for the AI? Are they likely to attack/settle closer or not? Does it matter if I don’t have one in theirs?

Q: How much strength/CS do you lose if not 100% full HP?

Q: What does ‘guarded’ status towards me mean?

Q: What does asking for AI to stop settling cities near you do? I noticed this never went away from America. Is this a Civ to Civ thing or will it be a negative for everyone at all times?

Q: Pledging to protect CSs? Benefits? Would you do it if no one else is? If they have bullies around them?

Q: What prompts resources to be demanded by cities to trigger ‘We Love The King Day’?

Q: Is there a set time for militaristic civs to send you a unit? Or do you need to be a friend of theirs for a full 20 turns or whatever it is to get the free unit?

Q: Which unit promotions are best? Is health any good to get for a 2nd promotion?

Q: If I block an AI out with my borders and they want open borders and I decline - are the more likely to declare war?

Q: Is there a way to see what promotions AI units have if not at war?

Q: Does a circus use a horse resource? I noticed I had 2x2 horse tiles with a pasture but I only had 2 Horses in total (no horse units and none traded).

Q: Religious Texts or Itinerant Preachers?

Q: If someone asks for allied help to go to war against someone - is this better than declaring war with that civ on your own? Is there any benefit of joining a war other than a diplo bonus with the person asking for war with that person?

Q: Should you let AI threats have open borders with you? Like Greece? Is there a diplo bonus for doing so?

Q: If already friends with a Civ can you ignore a request for money for nothing without a diplo hit?

Q: Why would an AI give me money on top for exchanging open borders?

Q: How many tiles does religion spread with no enhancers?

Q: If someone denounces you how can you get them to prevent war? Can you trade something and it will stall it for a few turns?

Q: Why do you randomly find City States in areas of map not explored?

Q: Does Interfaith Dialogue work every time even if you convert a city then it reconverts can you reconvert it then continue to get science?

Q: Is it possible to ask for a civ not to settle near lands without them getting mad and think I ‘demanded’ it? Does this go away?

Q: Apart from factories - what else is coal used for?

Q: With Royal Library does the slot just need to be filled the turn before the unit is built or sooner?

Q: If you attack with an anti-aircraft gun can it not intercept during AI turns?

Q: Does spreading Tourism with a great musician get a diplo penalty against the civ you spread it with? Or others given its 20% as well? What determines how much tourism?

Q: I saw a White flag flying outside of a City State at war? Does this mean it’s being liberated?

Q: Can submarine go into enemy territory?

Q: How do you get knowledge of what other civs are going to vote for if you don’t have a diplomat in their city? I kept getting intel that there were this many ‘yays’ or ‘nays’ when all my spies were in City States.

Q: If I’m on negative oil do I get a negative effect on my oil units? I thought I did once when I went negative horse. Does the penalty only happen if you’re at war? I have -9 oil and a heap of planes in my cities but nothing has come up.



Q: For Greece - Does Hellenic League mean that CS quests give out double influence? If not then how do you ‘recover’ influence twice the normal rate? Does this just mean if you fall into the negatives with a CS it will go back up at double rate to whatever the resting rate is? Or do ideologies such as 4 per turn for a trade route actually double?
A: Greece ability is that they recover from negative influence at twice the rate and decay from positive at half the rate. (thanks @Acken)

Q: What does ‘afraid’ status towards me mean?
A: Makes them unlikely to DOW you or disagree with you. (thanks @Acken)

Q: Does Accuracy work for open/flatland when attacking CITIES or just enemy units?
A: Accuracy works only on units, not cities. (thanks @Acken)

Q: Hagia Sophia or Borobudur?
A: Borobodur > Hagia Sophia from a pure faith efficiency. But Hagia can give you a Religion to begin with or help enhance faster. (thanks @Acken)

Q: What’s the benefit of accepting a DoF with someone like Japan if they’re just going to backstab you. Is it worth it if they’re not enemies/at war/denounced by anyone else?
A: The main purpose of declaration of friendship are the research agreement and being able to get lump sum of gold instead of per turn. (thanks @Acken)

Q: How does air sweep work?
A: Air Sweep allows you to make your Fighter fight an anti aircraft unit near the target. If a AA gun or another fighter protects the zone you use a fighter with air sweep first (one for each). (thanks @Acken)

Q: What will building the Manhattan project do? Is it likely to make other civs war with me? Or keep them away?
A: Manhattan project allows the production of nukes. It often make lesser civs afraid, making them unlikely to DOW you or disagree with you. (thanks @Acken)

Q: Do both parties get the same amount of science in a research agreement? (all bonuses from wonders/SPs aside) Is it worth doing it with a science victory competitor if I have the lead?
A: Both parties get the same in a RA before modifiers like Porcelain Tower. RA are usually okay with decently developed AIs. (thanks @Acken)

Q: How much unhappiness does specialists produce?
A: Specialists produce the same unhappiness as a normal citizen. (thanks @Acken)

Q: Does this mean that I just wasted away a unit?!
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A: If your unit had no room to move out you did not waste a unit, the unit will remain at 100% completion until you choose it again and make room to get it out. (thanks @Acken)


Thanks for the game! Enjoyed it immensely :D
 

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