The Last 'Big Lie' of Vietnam Kills U. S. Soldiers in Iraq

[civ_king]

That's still on the low end. The nicer AK's are going for $1,000...milled receiver, easily $1,500. Not saying yours isn't a good one. If it's a well-built Romanian then it's as good as any other. Just that it's hit-or-miss. The design is the same everywhere; the important part is who built it and whether the parts fit together right. They even did an AK build using toothpicks where you would place a rivet. The gun still fired off three rounds before falling apart. And if you don't fire corrosive ammo the non-chrome isn't a big deal. At the most you can just spray down and clean out the barrel and gas tube.

I belive the story about the Col. I'm sure he shook out any big globs of muck in there for a few seconds, but the AK will fire even full of crap like that. There are videos on youtube that show it if you look.

I remember someone telling me that the AK will even fire SUBMERGED in a load of muck (with the tip of the barrel sticking out) and will clean itself out that way!

 

[Cutlass]

Yeah, it was 6.5mm (.256) if I remember correctly. Some Europeans used that caliber also during and before WWII. Mannlicher rifles mostly.

The Japanese abandoned it and adopted a 7.7mm (.303) caliber before the war. Apparently because the 6.5mm were less effective against larger calibers used by China and the allies.

I heard the Japanese had the .25 on Guadalcanal....

 

[Bugfatty300]

That's still on the low end. The nicer AK's are going for $1,000...milled receiver, easily $1,500..

Actually my M70B2 has a milled receiver and I paid less than $600+taxes NIB for it. It was about a year after the ban ended.

And well actually they probably do cost that much nowawadays.

I belive the story about the Col. I'm sure he shook out any big globs of muck in there for a few seconds, but the AK will fire even full of crap like that. There are videos on youtube that show it if you look.

Mud and water are especially dangerous. The bullet hitting a wall of water in a gun barrel is not good. Think of falling into water from a great height. When you hit it's same effect as hitting concrete. It's same for a bullet. If the bullet hits that water and the pressure doesn't have anywhere to go then the gun literally explodes, often maiming or even killing the person shooting it.

Carefully clearing the breach of water and obstruction is basic safety precaution especially after the gun is immersed in water or mud. This is what Llewellyn's character is doing in No Country for Old Men when he blows air through the chamber of the .45 and reloads it just in the nick of time to kill the attacking dog.

Shaking the barrel might get the water out but remember the effect that water has (I can't remember the technical term) surface tension and can still be stuck in there no matter how hard you shake it. Maybe people get lucky most of time but it's not something I'd try with any gun. I still don't see why an AK would be anymore immune to this than any other rifle.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I heard the Japanese had the .25 on Guadalcanal....

Maybe. They still used them in sniping rifles. Maybe some second-rate units got older rifles.

 

[MobBoss]

Nope. Sorry. No one is going to convince me to blindly shoot a gun that's been buried in the muck and mud for a year. You go ahead though... Just don't blame me when you can't post a rebuttal until paramedics find and reattach all your missing digits.

So you basically call COL Hackworth a liar. Sorry, but I think his creds outweigh yours by more than a bit.

 

[Bugfatty300]

So you basically call COL Hackworth a liar. Sorry, but I think his creds outweigh yours by more than a bit.

Nope. I said he was lucky. But yeah go ahead fill a barrel of a rifle with mud and water and shoot it. Lots of rednecks are doing it on youtube to show how badass their AKs are. It'll be fun. Maybe you'll get lucky too.

 

[pau17]

Shaking the barrel might get the water out but remember the effect that water has (I can't remember the technical term) surface tension and can still be stuck in there no matter how hard you shake it. Maybe people get lucky most of time but it's not something I'd try with any gun. I still don't see why an AK would be anymore immune to this than any other rifle.

I always thought it was if you had air pockets trapped in between the water that you had a problem.

 

[Cutlass]

The physics says that any form of obstruction in the barrel is a problem. You only have to delay that bullet a little bit before the overpressure breaks something.

 

[Kraznaya]

Hey guise, did you know that soldiers spend time taking care of their dead as well?

 

[MobBoss]

Nope. I said he was lucky. But yeah go ahead fill a barrel of a rifle with mud and water and shoot it. Lots of rednecks are doing it on youtube to show how badass their AKs are. It'll be fun. Maybe you'll get lucky too.

Lucky or not, his comment proves my point about the AK regardless of your smartalec attitude. You only option to counter it is to make fun of what the guy did - which falls short since more folks than just me have witnessed or heard of the AKs ability to fire while extremely dirty.

Btw, wishing harm on another poster is against the TOS and pretty bad taste to be honest. I might disagree with you on something, but I wouldnt take any joy in you hurting yourself.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I always thought it was if you had air pockets trapped in between the water that you had a problem.

Eitherway how could you tell that the water/mud was gone from the barrel just by shaking it?

 

[Bugfatty300]

Lucky or not, his comment proves my point...

...that it's a reliable hella cool gun, yadda, yadda. Yes that's established. Thank you.

Btw, wishing harm on another poster is against the TOS and pretty bad taste to be honest. I might disagree with you on something, but I wouldnt take any joy in you hurting yourself.

Then you understand that mindlessly shooting a gun with possible barrel obstructions can bring about harmful (deadly actually) consequences?

BTW I wouldn't wish harm on you. I know that you'd never try something as dumb as that.

 

[civ_king]

The AK-47 is a super durable weapon, and I don't doubt that guy's story, however it is still dangerous even with an exceedingly superb piece of engineering to do that

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

That's still on the low end. The nicer AK's are going for $1,000...milled receiver, easily $1,500. Not saying yours isn't a good one. If it's a well-built Romanian then it's as good as any other--the accuracy and trigger group might be better on a custom build, but just as dependable. Just that it's hit-or-miss. The design is the same everywhere; the important part is who built it and whether the parts fit together right. They even did an AK build using toothpicks where you would place a rivet. The gun still fired off three rounds before falling apart. And if you don't fire corrosive ammo the non-chrome isn't a big deal. At the most you can just spray down and clean out the barrel and gas tube.

I belive the story about the Col. I'm sure he shook out any big globs of muck in there for a few seconds, but the AK will fire even full of crap like that. There are videos on youtube that show it if you look.

Christ, they're $1500 bucks here? Go to Africa and you can pick one up for a ten-spot.

 

[pau17]

Christ, they're $1500 bucks here? Go to Africa and you can pick one up for a ten-spot.

They're $1500 if you want one with a milled receiver (machined down from a block of pure steel, not stamped out of 1mm sheet metal), the best barrels, custom assembly by an experienced builder, smooth trigger pull, tight magazine fit, etc. And that's a lot cheaper than the high-end American semi-auto rifles can get. They would be a lot cheaper if they could be imported whole from Russia/Bulgaria/etc., but due to foreign-parts restrictions on semi-auto or "military" rifles, they have to be cobbled together here from a mix of parts and if you want it done right it adds several hundred dollars for the labor costs. An AK could be had for $200-300 a few years ago apparently, but they're shot up in price. You can still get a Yugoslavian SKS for $200-400, but that's because they are a "historical relic" and can be imported whole. If you put a detachable magazine or pistol grip on it though, it immediately becomes a "military rifle" again.

The ones in Africa will go "bang" if you pull the trigger but they're definitely inferior. The idea that "AKs are not accurate" is partly due to the fact that the AK's people are picking up off the ground in the Middle East are old and junked up, or are cheap imports. The accuracy from quality AKs, especially the 5.45 AK-74, is reported to be quite good.

But I hear what you're saying.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Are you under the impression that butt stroking your enemies is a common occurance outside of videogames?

Can we please invent a better term then "Butt Stroking?"

 

[pau17]

Eitherway how could you tell that the water/mud was gone from the barrel just by shaking it?

Mythbusters showed you could fire guns underwater. When you start talking about clumps of mud and uneven wet spots in the barrel, I don't know what would happen. I wouldn't do it myself, but I believe the story.

 

[Yeekim]

Nope. I said he was lucky. But yeah go ahead fill a barrel of a rifle with mud and water and shoot it. Lots of rednecks are doing it on youtube to show how badass their AKs are. It'll be fun. Maybe you'll get lucky too.

Imagine for a second a real combat situation, where you trip and fall into a gully, or get thrown there by a shockwave, or just desperately need to take cover therein... and few enemy combatants show up few dozen steps ahead.
Whatcha gonna do? Take apart your rifle and lovingly start polishing it?

I mean, improved chances of working with all kinds of unwanted small particles in your rifle's mechanism may not be worth anything at firing range, but you don't have to stretch your imagination to see a difference it could make in combat.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Christ, they're $1500 bucks here? Go to Africa and you can pick one up for a ten-spot.

I dont think you'll want one thats constantly falling apart.
You'll probably have to pay around a twenty

 

[Ecofarm]

my pack when I go out for a while is about 100 pounds and my weight is 165, 100 pounds begins to ache about mile 20 and makes my want to cry at about 35 (this is in one day) how bad do you guys have it?

We only were required to carry 35 lb rucksacks (plus water, weapon, etc). My friends and I would do 50 or 70 just to prove we could and be tough. Our Friday road marches were 6, 8, 12 then 0 miles (one friday off). Always full gear and boots, of course.

I once did a sub-freezing 12 mile in 2 hours 20 minutes (35lbs + weapon) (running the downhills). I was 2nd or 3rd place in my company that day.