The Law of the Jungle

For God's sake!

This debate is driving me crazy! I'll wait until you decide to tell my definite option (When I said Liberty, I was vaguely thinking in those terms but, you see, Jehoshua's words sounded too confident, and now yours seem so logic...).

Well, to hell with it. I support Liberty (once again). And I'll probably change my opinion a couple of times, so better don't count it yet.
 
Also, in case this wasn't clear, Eazu has the spare action and the spare Fame to manage the Adopt Policy action this session, so our Tlatoani can continue guiding production in the capital.

So for production...Granary, Jaguar, or Scout? I'm liking Jaguar from an in-game perspective, but Granary will mean more population, which means more Citizlans, which means more fun to go around for more players.

On the other hand, we may want to consider our chances of actually finishing whatever we produce within this session. In that case, it looks like this, assuming Cuautlequetzqui runs the produce action:

Scout: Would finish by next session
Jaguar: Maybe would finish by next session (about a 50% chance, since one of the 5 random selections would have to land Jaguar)
Granary: Would not finish by next session, but would be within 4-6 turns of completion

This one's a harder decision. Thoughts?
 
Do we even have workers yet? We should consider that.
Also, as for Aztec weapons (Jehoshua's honor argument), I prefer the temoztopilli myself...
OOC: Not advocating a policy branch.
 
I generally maintain that building workers is a misuse of production, when they can be so easily bought (with loans, if necessary), stolen, and/or gained through Citizenship. But it's certainly an option to start one. We would have to dedicate 3 whole sessions to produce it, though.
 
Jaguar. Improving and expanding our army must be a top priority in order to take full potential of our trait and unique unit. It will also allow for coordinated attacks and further exploration (a scout better fits the last one, but being the Jaguar our UU, the loss is worth it.
 
Long version (longest yet, actually):

*****

Plenty of things could have gone wrong since Eczie left for the Sunrise Forest. Plenty of things had. But she was satisfied at how it had turned out.

Shazlan had turned back early, before they even reached the forest. He had left after a heated argument, so at first she wondered if the decision was rash. But traveling on her own was emotionally easier, if lonelier and more dangerous. Even if the trip had been hell, nothing would have convinced her to return back to the Yilfruit tribe and give her father the satisfaction of being right.

She had journeyed on, past the pyramid to the eastern end of the jungle. When the air became crisper and the undergrowth thinner, she knew she had reached her destination. Before long she met the forest’s other inhabitants, and she was overjoyed that the rumors were true -- the forest village was populated by people just like her who had rebelled against their parents and left other areas of Aztlan. They welcomed her even more heartily than she had imagined they would.

In many ways the Sunrise Forest was the paradise it had promised. All were expected to assist in gathering food and building shelter; none exerted authority over any other; prayer and sacrifice to the gods was mostly foregone, as it was seen as an unnecessary vestige of generational tyranny; and love was free for those who consented. The last of these had earned the forest its greatest reputation throughout Aztlan, which is why so many young people flocked to it and so many of their parents dreaded it. Suffice to say, an assertive girl like Eczie never wanted for a bedmate on nights when she wished for one.

But Eczie’s life in the forest changed the night one young man tried to partner with her when she didn’t have mind to. She was clear on her feelings, but he kept pushing and pushing. When he went a step too far, she broke his arm. Real violence, especially from women, was rare in the forest, so Eczie’s reputation immediately changed. At first she became worried, thinking the others feared her, but she noticed that their actions were not so much fearful as reverent. Her peers spoke to her less casually and less often, but when they did seek her input it was to resolve conflicts, answer mysteries, and provide the proper pressure to those who freeloaded on the tribe’s good will.

In breaking one arm, Eczie had gone from an outspoken member of the crowd to a de facto chieftaness of the forest. It was not made official and none would do so much as to call her their leader, but it was known throughout the tribe that she should be consulted for important decisions, and she spoke for the forest as a whole when interacting with other tribes. She would never admit it, but most of the time she was called upon to lead, she modeled what she grew up watching her father do. So, since Eazulotl’s leadership was on her mind more often than she might have liked, Eczie was uneasy when she and some of the other Foresters journeyed to the main pyramid to see her father.

Tenochtitlan had sent runners around the kingdom to gather all who would hear to receive the famous Eazulotl of House Grey, Citizlan of the Yilfruit tribe. Eazu was to speak on the philosophy of their civilization and begin the next stage of Aztlan’s legacy. Eczie dared not be the one to back down from such a confrontation. She was determined to interact with her father formally and as equals -- the leaders of two tribes -- rather than as ruling father and subordinate daughter.

She had all of her close friends assure that she was at maximum presentability for the event. She wore a toga covered in fresh-plucked green leaves which covered one shoulder (unlike her father’s silver tunic which covered both shoulders) and tied tightly around her waist with hempen rope. Above her left breast she wore an emblem of a tree with a rising sun behind it, intricately carved by one of her many male suitors back home. And her silver-grey hair was bound into a tight braid which reached down to her lower back. She was determined to project to her father and the rest of Aztlan that the Sunrise Forest was a respectable tribe, just as any other was.

Eczie, among the throng of people who had gathered to hear Eazu talk, stood at the foot of the many-staired pyramid at the center of Aztlan’s kingdom. After being introduced, Eazulotl climbed the first eight steps, turned to the crowd, and spoke.

“Tribes of Aztlan, thank you for your welcome. It is delightful to see all of you here. The Pyramiders, the Yilfruits, the Gems, the independent houses of Perzien and Joatzli...and the Sunrise Forest.” He looked down at Eczie. It was the first time they had made eye contact since their argument the day she left. Some emotion interrupted him, but she couldn’t tell what it was from the distance.

“Each of the tribes of Aztlan define themselves well, and have rich character,” Eazu continued. “But I speak today of what we all share, and that is our greater heritage.

“There is a legacy, forged of old blood and allegiance, which makes all of us different from any group of barbarians. We all pray to the same gods, we follow the same Tlatoani, and we wish to see not only our individual tribe, but all of Aztlan prosper across the future of this earth.

“But for this triumph to happen, there must be more than shared interest between our tribes. We must enact ways of life and strong principles that have shown to bring prosperity. We must allow these policies to guide us in all we do as a people, and we must let it virtuously differentiate us from all other civilizations.

“My fellow Aztlan, today we must declare ourselves allies of Liberty. We must respect the choices and lives of our tribesmen, and allow them to live their lives as they choose so long as they do not unduly infringe upon the lives of others. We must do this even if it pains us or inconveniences us,” Eazu looked at Eczie on this line, “because the humanity of our families and our countrymen is larger and more important than any selfish desires we have.

“Of course, the reason why the tenets of Liberty will define Aztlan is no decision handed down by me, by our Tlatoani, or even by the gods. The reason why we can announce Liberty as a value of our people is because we already believe in it.

“Consider these. Within the lands of Tenochtitlan, Citizlans and peasants may move freely to settle the lands they choose, and tenants may even flee chieftans and leaders of whom they do not approve. We do not force our young men to become warriors, but merely send to the field those who hunger to prove themselves in battle. Between our various tribes, we have established many ways of life that should not and will not be infringed upon; my own Yilfruit tribe lives differently from the Gem tribe, who lives differently from the Jaguar Warriors, who live still differently from the new tribe in the Sunrise Forest.” He looked at Eczie again. “All these ways are good and proper, as they all fundamentally respect the Liberty of those within them. Some day, some group of our brothers and sisters will leave the lands of Tenochtitlan to found yet more cities, all of whom will add to the legacy of Aztlan. May our tribes number many, many more and spread throughout the world.

“Embracing Liberty as our creed will indeed encourage our spreading throughout the world, as allowing freedom of choice has led to wondrous advances even in our lifetimes: the Gem people are on the verge of a revolution in land cultivation; more and more Citizlans are taking responsibility of tending their own lands, which has brought wealth and prosperity to many; even among the warriors to the south, my own son has taken part in pioneering freely-arranged commerce and trade that will benefit all those involved.

“So again, thank you all. Thank you for attending this momentous day in the history of Aztlan, but you deserve a greater thanks for cultivating such a lush and deserving culture among our people. This character brings favor from the gods each and every day. May it never end.”

Eczie of course supported the Liberty policy, she cheered as loud as the rest when Eazu finished, and she enjoyed the following feast of Quetzalcoatl with her Forester tribesmates. She still successfully avoided her father, though, and she left for home without speaking with him.

In his speech, Eazu had clearly tried to reach out to her, to say that he respected her choices. Within herself, she respected him as well. But for Eczie, respect was different from reconciliation.

*****

Short version:

Eazulotl will adopt the Liberty social policy, offering 1 Fame.
Ebzulotl will give 4 Food to Lieutenant Sparthage.
Eczulotl will train Fame to level 2.
 
"He came dancing across the waters... Cortez, Cortez." This Mr. Hernan who sent an emissary to visit seems a suspicious fellow. I think that we need to assess our position here and look for ways to curtail the paleface expansion, the earlier the better. The trouble is, we have no clue as to what the Gods need us to do! I must seek the wisdom, and I will retreat to the Pyramid to contemplate these matters...
 
@GreyWithAnE

OOC:

Blasphemy! the heretic must be purged and his heart offered to Huitzilopochtli to amend for even expressing this sinful liberty. The rightful place of the downtrodden is beneath the feet of the lords of Aztlan in perpetual servitude. Death to the heretic!

~Ahuitzotl the wrathful (deceased)

-

IC

interesting propositions, perhaps liberty would be a superior choice for the greater good, although of course our honour must be the long term objective, too much freedom is never a good thing.

~ Ipalnemoani the orthodox (living) :p
 
The Festival of Quetzalcoatl seemed to go on for years. The good He brought to Atzlan was not presently seen, but I could feel His presence and Spirit among all the people. Eazulotl, for instance, came to the festival to preach a new doctrine he calls “Liberty”. I know the word, but it disheartens me to see so many people now gathering bundles of their belongings and getting ready to leave our Capital. Yet I have seen the light and the Feathered God will surely guide these people to new lands to increase the breadth of our Empire. But He alone cannot be the one to make us survive. I am planning on a new festival… it will soon be upon us.

Meanwhile, the Citizlan have done unspeakable things in the nearby countryside. When touring in the Jungle, I saw one little gathering of hovels, and to my surprise, the dried-out skull with a familiar face of Ahuitzotl. The peasant of this village, Prinz von Perzien, had declared himself the Priest of Tlaloc and cut off Ahuitzotl’s head as an offering to the God of fertility. In the show of power I felt I needed to express, I called out to him and asked if he could come to Tenochtitlan to finish the Monument with me. I could see the look of disdain in his face as he said to me simply that he needed to dig a pit in his village. I could see that the pit was already deep enough and that a lot of water was seeping into it, but still, he did not seem satisfied by what he had done. “I’ll see to this matter,” I thought to myself.

In the late afternoon I arrived, with the sun at my back highlighting my feathered robe, and with my guards and their dully shining pointed instruments of terror, flanking the village from all sides. I gave a simple order: “Capture Prinz von Perzien!”
 
OOC:
@Ceskari: Watch PoP change his order to "Enlist in 1st Jaguar Company." It might not stop the inevitable but it will delay it.

edit: Actually it could if he joined then challenged Caragus, and ordered the unit away from Aztec territory
 
In that case, it wouldn't work as he would need three actions.
 
Well, let's think about that...

During this session, he joins the unit. As he has less fame than Ceskari, his order would be implemented first. Since the 1st Jaguar Company is more than 10 turns from our territory, he would be safe during the next session. During the first part of the next session, he could challenge Caragus for the Captaincy. During the second part of that session, he would order the unit away from Aztec lands. The Company moves on during the next 10 turns, and Ceskari has no chance to capture him.

Of course, Ceskari could also have the same bad luck that Jehoshua had, and our current leader could end up at the pointy end of the knife next session.
 
He would need really bad luck, as he has some 6 points of Fame (or so). But you are forgetting that Ceskari still has the beginning of the next session to capture PoP.
 
Well, let's think about that...

During this session, he joins the unit. As he has less fame than Ceskari, his order would be implemented first. Since the 1st Jaguar Company is more than 10 turns from our territory, he would be safe during the next session. During the first part of the next session, he could challenge Caragus for the Captaincy. During the second part of that session, he would order the unit away from Aztec lands. The Company moves on during the next 10 turns, and Ceskari has no chance to capture him.

Of course, Ceskari could also have the same bad luck that Jehoshua had, and our current leader could end up at the pointy end of the knife next session.

Actually, the Jaguars probably are within 10 moves of the city, assuming they don't run into some fog-of-war hills or fights on their way home.

Even considering that, the Enlist action is probably the best way to keep himself safe. Defend could be prudent as well: currently the odds are stacked against Prinz, but a Defend action would make it essentially an equal 3-way chance of win/lose/draw.

And here we all thought we'd go a whole session without an attack...
 
Not if the unit is more than 2 tiles away, he can't.

edit: Grey, the unit is at least 10 turns away unless we aren't penalized for jungle moves (it probably still would be, but I haven't seen a world map so I'm not certain). There are several hills and a river that will eat up those movement points.
 
He would need really bad luck, as he has some 6 points of Fame (or so). But you are forgetting that Ceskari still has the beginning of the next session to capture PoP.

JoanK: Don't forget that all stats are square-rooted & rounded down before the RNG roll. So the advantage is not as large as it might look. Without any further modifiers, this attack would be resolved with a (Random Number)*(11/6) roll. Results higher than 1 mean Prinz loses, results lower than .67 means Prinz wins.

Sparthage: The 2-tile rule only applies to characters in two different units. When comparing a unit with a city, the unit needs to be "within the city," which I assume means within the city borders (although yahzuk can correct if I'm wrong). So Prinz's/Cuautl's exact hex within the city should be irrelevant.
 
Interesting discussion. There's another option that hasn't been mentioned yet.
 
Interesting discussion. There's another option that hasn't been mentioned yet.

A preemptive attack (Assassinate, Capture, or Overthrow) on Prinz's part? Interesting indeed. It probably wouldn't stop the attack outright (Assassinate would only have about a 5% chance of killiling Cuautl), but the resulting gain/loss of stats could help Prinz in the eventual Capture action. Probably would have the potential to gain about as much as a Defend action in this case.

Unless the alternative you're thinking of is some kind of back-room deal to ask other players to coordinate or convince Ceskari to call off the Capture altogether. At which point that's a lot of different alternatives :D
 
A preemptive attack (Assassinate, Capture, or Overthrow) on Prinz's part? Interesting indeed. It probably wouldn't stop the attack outright (Assassinate would only have about a 5% chance of killiling Cuautl), but the resulting gain/loss of stats could help Prinz in the eventual Capture action. Probably would have the potential to gain about as much as a Defend action in this case.

Unless the alternative you're thinking of is some kind of back-room deal to ask other players to coordinate or convince Ceskari to call off the Capture altogether. At which point that's a lot of different alternatives :D

All valid options but not what I was thinking of. I'm talking about a 100% certain way for Prinz to invalidate Ceskari's attack against him that hasn't been mentioned yet.
 
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