The limits of EU

[Verbose]

Well are the Austrian and Swedish constitutions written to say that they cannot enter war?

For Sweden, the word isn't "neutral" but "alliance free". And it's a policy, not something constitutional.

 

[Verbose]

Even if you ignore the UK, that's bye-bye Greece, Ireland, and Sweden.

With regards to having a state church or not, the Church of Sweden at leat was separated from the Swedish state about a decade ago.

(Not to mention the place is so secular the old Soviet leaders visiting the country back in those days were impressed. Whatever the Swedes did to their official religion, it was killing it more efficiently than official atheism.)

 

[GinandTonic]

Yet that's the only one that actually annoys me, when I have to go through the freakin' customs everytime I go see my brother.

Wow, has anyone done more than look to see you have a red passport in the last five years? There are no meaningful customs between the uk and europe. The security often intrusive, but I honestly havnt exchanged any words with a customs fella in the last dozen trips.

Going through customs consists consists of walking down a corridor wondering where the exits and/ or the first smoking zone is. Just doesnt seem the same as wasting hundreds of billions a year on corruption and farm subs to me, but hay ho.

 

[Masquerouge]

Wow, has anyone done more than look to see you have a red passport in the last five years? There are no meaningful customs between the uk and europe. The security often intrusive, but I honestly havnt exchanged any words with a customs fella in the last dozen trips.

Going through customs consists consists of walking down a corridor wondering where the exits and/ or the first smoking zone is. Just doesnt seem the same as wasting hundreds of billions a year on corruption and farm subs to me, but hay ho.

It means you have to take your passport, you have to wait in line, and a lot of money is spent on custom officers and custom offices that could be allocated someplace else.
It might be a minor annoyance, yet the symbol of it is quite strong: the UK is the only EU member still having the old-fashioned border.

And I also am again farm subsidies, btw.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Supposing EU can solve its internal problem and reform, so it can theoretically incorporate as many new members as it wishes and still have institutions that work (OK, it's a big if).

What should be the limits, or the conditions to accept new candidates countries?
- They should be the same religion?
- They should be strong economically?
- They should geographically be in Europe?
- They should have a similar culture?
- They should be democracy?

I've included in the poll a few examples of countries, so you could tell in your opinion which one could join EU, and which shouldn't

The EU appears to be modeling itself as a European federation. If it is to become a truly unified state, it should make sure that such cohesion be maintained with any new members. Such members should have governments and institutions that resemble the EU's. So a democratic state is ideal. That state should not have any untoward entanglements with neighbors that would jeapardize the EU by extension. It should not have any internal problems that could cause fracture in the immediate future. With this in mind, I'm surprised that Cyprus was allowed to join.

 

[GinandTonic]

It should not have any internal problems that could cause fracture in the immediate future. With this in mind, I'm surprised that Cyprus was allowed to join.

Yeah, but that keeps the Greeks happy, was one in the eye for the Turks keeping the eastern countries, French and everyones right wing happy, and means the Brits can write the cost of the cypress base off against its EU subs.

 

[ironduck]

The EU isn't a federation although some people would like it to be. It's a completely voluntary cooperation between sovereign countries, but at the same time they've agreed to bind each other on a number of terms.

There really aren't any political constructions similar to the EU as far as I know.

 

[kryszcztov]

I'm also unhappy that Greek-Cyprus could join. We can't have half a state inside the EU and the other half outside ! Plus, Cyprus isn't really in Europe, but we could make it OK (it's still closer to Turkey and Lebanon than to Greece).

As for the French overseas territories, they should be out of the European Union, or more precisely, have a special status. But the real thing is that I'd rather send them all to independent state (Nouvelle-Calédonie is the most advanced in this regard). Too bad for football, but football isn't all.

 

[Masquerouge]

As for the French overseas territories, they should be out of the European Union, or more precisely, have a special status. But the real thing is that I'd rather send them all to independent state (Nouvelle-Calédonie is the most advanced in this regard). Too bad for football, but football isn't all.

Oh no! We're gonna loose Karembeu???

 

[ironduck]

I don't understand the focus on geography. It seems so.. pointless. So arbitrary.

 

[kryszcztov]

Oh no! We're gonna loose Karembeu???

Don't worry, we still keep his wife from Slovakia !

 

[Dionysius]

*sigh* this geographical arguement is just pedantry. although i am the definition of pedantic, i disapprove of it in serious issues like politics n`stuff.
spain owns ceuta in morrocco. england has all those left over islands from when they had that empire, and is greenland, owned by denmark, on the european continent? then theres netherlands antilles in the carribean, and
the canary islands [spanish] and can anyone remember if portugal still owns Macau?

 

[Kyriakos]

Culturally Cyprus is linked to western civilisation though; it has almost always been part of a non-asian civ (if you count out the ottoman and arab conquests) and has even supplied troops in alexander the great's campaigns

 

[Hakim]

I'm envisioning a "Greater Europe" or perhaps "Fat Europe" with all european countries and some of the border countries. This would include Russia, Israel and the the arabic countries north of Sahara. Of course all remote islands etc belonging to EU members would also be part of it.

Unfortunately this discussion takes the same path most other "should country X be in EU" discussions. Some say "Belarus can be a member once it has become democratic" provoking the response "no it can not because it's not a democracy". A more specific question would be: which countries would you deny membership in EU for the only reason that they are not in or close enough to Europe?. I wouldn't deny Russia or Morocco membership for that reason alone, but it's pretty obvious that they are not suitable members today.

 

[ironduck]

greenland, owned by denmark, on the european continent?

It's on the North American side as far as I know, but either way they opted out and are not members.

 

[mango20022002]

I am opposed to letting any more big poor countries into the EU because we have already seen massive immigration in the 2 yrs since EU Enlargement. When Ireland voted on the Nice Treaty we were not told our govt would make us one of only 3 Western EU states to open our borders to Poland etc. before everyone else. Germany, France, Denmark, Belgium, Holland, Austria, Luxembourg continue to refuse to open their borders before 2009-11 (they must be lifted by 2011). Over 200,000 Eastern EU citizens came to work in Ireland in that period. Ireland only has 4.2 million people of which 10% are already foreigners. Considering that most of these entered in the last 10 years, bringing us in that short time to where it took Britain 50 yrs, France 30 yrs and Germany 40 yrs to get, I really think public-opinion would resent rushing into further Enlargement to poor countries - especially big ones. I am opposed to the impending Enlargement to include Romania and Bulgaria. A new optional transition period of up to 7 years will beging when they enter in January 2007. They have 30 million people between them. They are so poor that on the news tonight it referred to people in Bulgaria selling their children to Westerners. And as for Turkey....

 

[Dionysius]

Greenlandic voters subsequently chose to leave the European Economic Community upon achieving self-rule.

oh, wasnt aware.

 

[Dionysius]

I am opposed to letting any more big poor countries into the EU because we have already seen massive immigration in the 2 yrs since EU Enlargement. When Ireland voted on the Nice Treaty we were not told our govt would make us one of only 3 Western EU states to open our borders to Poland etc. before everyone else. Germany, France, Denmark, Belgium, Holland, Austria, Luxembourg continue to refuse to open their borders before 2009-11 (they must be lifted by 2011). Over 200,000 Eastern EU citizens came to work in Ireland in that period. Ireland only has 4.2 million people of which 10% are already foreigners. Considering that most of these entered in the last 10 years, bringing us in that short time to where it took Britain 50 yrs, France 30 yrs and Germany 40 yrs to get, I really think public-opinion would resent rushing into further Enlargement to poor countries - especially big ones. I am opposed to the impending Enlargement to include Romania and Bulgaria. A new optional transition period of up to 7 years will beging when they enter in January 2007. They have 30 million people between them. They are so poor that on the news tonight it referred to people in Bulgaria selling their children to Westerners. And as for Turkey....

i agree, the immigration to ireland is a little too much too soon.
and turkey... not with their human rights record.

 

[GinandTonic]

Greenland was in when it was a part of Denmark, but left when it got home rule in 85.

As for the odds and sods of empire, included in the EU are...

French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Réunion, Gibraltar, Åland Islands (Finnish).

Excluded to a greater or lesser degree are,

French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna, French Southern Territories, Mayotte, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, Aruba, Netherlands Antilles, Faroe Islands, Greenland, Guernsey, Jersey, the Isle of Man, Akrotiri and Dhekelia, Bermuda, Anguilla, the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, Montserrat, the Turks and Caicos Islands, Falkland Islands, Pitcairn Islands, Saint Helena, British Indian Ocean Territory, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

Who are all dependent teratories (or similar) of eu states and are at present of complex levels of association to the eu. The exact nature of the relationship varies, around infrastructure grants tax status, freedom of movement etc.

Bottom line - geography doesnt matter. There are bits of the EU in Antartica, africa, europe, america, asia and ociania.

Ohh and 500 posts, oh yeah baby.

EDIT - Also the Azores and Madeira are in(ish) as are the Canary Islands. Ceuta and Melilla are anomilous too. Hell there are loads more, all with varous degrees of association, and frankly this is becoming a bit like hard word.

 

[ironduck]

Greenland was in when it was a part of Denmark, but left when it got home rule in 85.

Actually they got home rule in 1979. They left in 1985 due to some fishing quota conflicts.

(edit - and Greenland is still part of Denmark)