The Loom of the Land

Ok I'll follow most of your suggestions :)
Switched Boston to lighthouse - library will take forever.

Turn 1 - 725 BC Research IW. There is iron just NE of Washington just outside our borders. Research set to Metal Casting - but its 33 turns away and we're losing money at 60%. Desperately need some cottages to pillage. I move our attackers towards Madrid. We don't have the required tech (minimum 11 turns of research) to build oracle and with it being 700 BC already I doubt we'd get there first - both the Romans and Vikings have marble, and we don't. Started building Stonehenge in Washington. Trade IW for polytheism + archery from Saladin.

Turn 3 - 675 BC Bad news - I reach Madrid and there isn't a cottage in sight. Its guarded by 2 archers, and has 60% culture defence.
Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg


Turn 4 - 650 BC Madrid gains another archer. Having had a think about this, I dont see any real advantage to taking Madrid right now. Although its a nice spot with lots of seafood, and the founding city of buddhism, there are NO other buddhist cities in the world and therefore shrine income will be non exsistent. We're already down to 60% science - is it a good idea to get another city at this stage until we get currency/col? I decide a temporary peace won't hurt us - we can take it later whenever we feel like it, and maybe by then she'll have some cottages or will have built the shrine for us.

Civ4ScreenShot0009-1.jpg


As you can see, Izzy gives us a nice lot of (albeit fairly useless) religious techs. Now the possibility of building the oracle opens up again. Although I still think we'll get beaten to it, its got to be worth a shot considering our less than stellar tech rate - only 10 turns in Washington and I've got a forest chop going on a hill which will be mined later anyway. I switch production to oracle. And if we're going to be building the oracle, it seems like a total waste to use it for Mathematics (~300 beakers) when we could get Metal Casting from it (~600+ beakers). Considering we've only researched 50 beakers into metal casting, I switch our research to Maths on the assumption that we'll get the oracle.. time will tell!

Meanwhile Barcelona starts the great lighthouse - due in 16 turns but I'll speed that up with a chop or two also.

Turn 5 - 625 BC Gems online at New York, which is building a granary to help it grow and eliminate unhealthiness.

Turn 6 - 600 BC Saladin completes Stonehenge - had we continued building it we'd still have been 3 turns away from completion at this stage.

Turn 7 - 575 BC 49G from Stonehenge allows me to crank research up a bit. We meet this chap:
Civ4ScreenShot0010-1.jpg


Turn 10 - 500 BC Not much more of consequence. Washington is 3 turns away from oracle - if we get it I strongly suggest taking MC and getting the Colossus in Barcelona - we have a lot of coast which would benefit from the bonus, and it'd also help the previously mentioned idea to spam Great Merchants. Barcelona is 7 turns from Great Lighthouse and is about to get another forest chop. Research is up at 90% (-7/turn) and Maths is due in 6, we should probably then beeline to currency. We can take Madrid whenever we feel like it, but there's no big rush. Having a look round the map I love the look of the Viking capital Nidaros, we should definitely make it ours at some stage!

Civ4ScreenShot0011-1.jpg


Our next war is probably going to have to be southwards into Saladin's jungle outposts, possibly using elephants which we're not a million miles from researching?
 
Wow, really great moves. Good decision with Isabella. Madrid can wait. She can only buildarchers. It's a post-catapult conquest that one.


I agree about Ragnar's land. We need it. The question is Saladin. It would be good to get Hinduism and be his best friend while we take Ragnar out. On the other hand he his right up in our face.

Augustus might get grumpy too.

Edit:
Just looking at the map, if we march ( a bit later ) down to see Ragnar, we are very close to Mecca, and Sally has no metal except his iron by the border. We could pillage it and also his horses very easily leaving Mecca vulnerable to a catapult and a few axes.

Xyqtt, best to just finish the wonders and maximize commerce wherever possible.

Roster;

Fro - just played
Xyqtt - UP
Fbelintani - on deck
Mice
 
Oh I think Saladin should be before Ragnar just for geographical reasons. I was just admiring the awesome resources around his capital :)
 
Cool. If we build gold there for a while it will be no drain on our econ and then we will have three capitals including Madrid and three shrines. A good foundation.
 
just building up the lands. Onl declared war on izzy again. She hooked up the iron and founded a new city. Razed the mine and the city without loses. We have a city raider 3 axe now. We got the great lighthouse and the oracle. I picked metal casting. The collusus will be there next turn. In barcelona. Capital builded a library and an axe. One more in que.

Workers are starting to become idle. Most they can do now is clearing the jungle.

Great wall has been built bij augustus and I signed an open border agreement with churchill

Monarchy can be obtained by trade from kubla khan and augustus. But I don't know if we want to start trading alfabet/mathematics already

currency will be in in 3 turns.

*IMPORTANT* we are at war with izzy */IMPORTANT*
 
OMG! Who could tell that having no cottages and no specialists we would have a tech lead this far? Actually, kudos to Xyqtt for calling Alphabet this time. I would not have tried for it. :thumbsup:
Mice, very wise decision on taking Spain now. I would have waited a little longer, just to have two assault parties: 1 for Madrid and other for the minor cities. Seeing Isa has no metals, should be easy for a sword rush. No catapults needed, I think. Some, say, 6 swords could take 3 archers with some luck. And a few of our veteran axes should do the remainder. But it's a thought for later.

About the GM wonders: I did a recent game going for a GM spam. But I employed a lot of Merchants. By the end of the game, I had 7 spamming from my capital. If you want to take a look, see here.
One thing I should say: if we want to spam Merchants from there, make sure to not build the Temple of Solomon. Pollution of GP should be a pain for us, as we cannot counter it hiring the specialists.

We are on a continent with all the AI's. That's good too. Only problem is the WFYABTA limit. But, being on tech lead, this will not be a big issue!

We're looking good! Now, it's time to get some pillaging chariots around for cottage pillage fun. :ar15:
 
Nice work Xyqtt. Great that we got the wonders. Good to stamp out any Issey development. With any luck she'll build that shrine for us.

Good point about the temple of Soloman Fb. I didn't think about that. It seems we may have to wait a long time for our shrine, maybe the second GP born, in Washington, after the merchant. No worries, we can get more from the merchants.

Decision on Confucianism. We might be able to grab it after currency. Or go for construction. If we grab it we have too many holy cities and not enough prophets. But we can manipulate a religious conflict between the other AIs more easily.

If we pass it up, the religious scene will get more complex. But we should start to think about who our friends will be soon anyway. We should probably stay without religion in the time being.

Typing this I'm now sure we should get catapults. Reason being to take out Mecca more than Madrid. Mecca is that production giant we have been looking for.

As Fro said, it makes sense geographically to go for Saladin. Hit Sally before longbows is the idea I think. Madrid, second priority.

Fbelintani, your site is great !
 
Hey Xyqtt! Not fun! You edited your post and I didn't get that "update" mail until now! Don't do it again! :nono:
But :goodjob: from me also! I just can't believe how good we are doing on the tech and wonder department.... I think I'm getting too much builder myself. War is absolutely a must this early on civ!

IIRC, I'm up! As this game runs a little fast, I can try to squeeze it tonight. If I can't, I'll request a skip tomorrow morning. Be ready, Mice! :mischief:
 
Just a small point, New York can be working the other gems mine. Lovely gems
 
I just realized I stopped reading your post before the end, as I saw you commenting on Xqytt's turnset.
Thanks for the site. It's still a baby yet, but I plan on getting it better. I'll try to do some offline games also and post there. :)

So, my goals (if I can play) should be:
1- Work the other gem mine in NY :D
2- Get Construction
3- Try to finish Isa
4- Prepare for Arabian Nights War

Cap'n Mice, how many turn should I play? 10? 15?
 
I'm not sure how many Xyqtt played but Fro played 10. I would say play ten unless you feel you can finish something you started in fifteen. It doesnt have to be too strict because I think everyone is playing in the spirit of a team, so you choose.
 
Oh yeah! Things are good!

I`ll do a turn by turn. I just love the autologger...

Turn 110/460 (125 BC) [14-May-2007 19:37:23]
Boston finishes: Library :whipped:
Barcelona finishes: The Colossus

Turn 111/460 (100 BC) [14-May-2007 19:42:49]
Tech learned: Currency
Shortened by one turn

Turn 112/460 (75 BC) [14-May-2007 19:46:28]
Research begun: Construction (6 Turns)
Washington finishes: Axeman

And how it was possible? I don't know, but I'm gonna score some.
churchillmystbu4.jpg


Turn 113/460 (50 BC) [14-May-2007 19:57:35]
Washington begins: Granary (8 turns)

Turn 114/460 (25 BC) [14-May-2007 20:36:35]
A Mine was built near New York
First objective complete!
Washington finishes: Granary
New York finishes: Aqueduct

Turn 115/460 (0 AD) [14-May-2007 20:38:38]
Washington begins: Axeman (5 turns)
New York begins: Barracks (6 turns)
Boston's borders expand

IBT:
Confucianism founded in a distant land
Actually, it was in Upsalla, Viking lands. Not that far.

Turn 117/460 (50 AD) [14-May-2007 20:49:30]
Tech learned: Construction
Second objective complete!
Washington finishes: Axeman

Time to get some more change:
sallypriestug6.jpg

Cha-ching!

Turn 118/460 (75 AD) [14-May-2007 20:57:01]
Research begun: Code of Laws (4 Turns)
Washington begins: Catapult (4 turns)

Turn 119/460 (100 AD) [14-May-2007 20:59:04]
Boston finishes: Granary

Turn 120/460 (125 AD) [14-May-2007 21:00:26]
Washington's borders expand
New York finishes: Barracks
Barcelona finishes: Granary

Okay. I should stop here. But I played 5 more to accomplish my last two objectives. Next post, shortly
 
Super dooper . What do you think about trade to get calendar ? It would give us quite a boost.
 
Charging again!!!

Turn 121/460 (150 AD) [14-May-2007 21:03:01]
New York begins: War Elephant (5 turns)
Barcelona begins: Catapult (7 turns)
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Washington finishes: Catapult

Turn 122/460 (175 AD) [14-May-2007 21:04:34]
Research begun: Civil Service (11 Turns)
I hope everyone is right with it. Civil Service will enable chain irrigation and then we can start workshopping the plain tiles. I would, also, build a Watermill on riverside grasslands when Machinery is available.
Washington begins: Catapult (4 turns)

Also, as Ragnar had Code of Laws, I'd see what I could get for it...
First with Caesar:
juliusdealxk3.jpg

And with Churchill:
churchillpriestpw3.jpg

Wait. Don't kill me. Next turn you'll see why.

Turn 123/460 (200 AD) [14-May-2007 21:09:30]
churchillcalendarwd7.jpg

Was this okay? Hope so!

Turn 124/460 (225 AD) [14-May-2007 21:10:00]
Washington finishes: Catapult

IBT:
State Religion Change: Churchill(England) from 'no State Religion' to 'Hinduism'

Turn 125/460 (250 AD) [14-May-2007 21:12:38]
Washington begins: War Elephant (6 turns)

My final turn. Check this out:
madridassaultdq4.jpg


While attacking in Spanish territory at Madrid, Chariot loses to: Spanish Archer (2.10/3) (Prob Victory: 2.9%)
While attacking in Spanish territory at Madrid, Axeman loses to: Spanish Archer (3.00/3) (Prob Victory: 6.8%) Bummer. No scratchs.
Axeman IV of Washington (Axeman) promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Spanish territory at Madrid, Axeman IV of Washington (Axeman) loses to: Spanish Archer (1.08/3) (Prob Victory: 8.8%)
Axeman III of Washington (Axeman) promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Spanish territory at Madrid, Axeman III of Washington (Axeman) defeats (0.40/5): Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 16.6%) This was to compensate for that unscratched!
While attacking in Spanish territory at Madrid, Axeman defeats (3.90/5): Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 20.7%) Another good dice roll!
Hernan Cortes (Great General) born in Washington
While attacking in Spanish territory at Madrid, Axeman II of Washington (Axeman) defeats (2.00/5): Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 64.2%)
While attacking in Spanish territory at Madrid, Axeman I of Washington (Axeman) defeats (3.30/5): Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 99.6%) Sent the CR3!

madridcapturedxq4.jpg


Spanish Empire has been eliminated
Third objective achieved! :D
Madrid begins: Buddhist Monastery (60 turns)
If anyone needs to build missionaries. And also for the border pops. Feel free to veto. Oh. And Madrid did not have the Buddhist Shrine..

We have a couple of catapults, a couple of axes and a chariot ready to assault Saladin. Next turn, a Jumbo will be ready. And you can always bring the forces from Madrid. The medic chariot should be on its way now. I "emptied" our cities. Some had two axes and a warrior inside. I let just the warrior. Some archers may be useful, but I do think Saladin is on his way to Feudalism and the dreaded longbows.

Mice, have fun!
 

Attachments

We won with 20% and 16% . The RNG likes us today. Nice play. We are really on our way !

Edit: Good moves with CoL trades. We have a choice of happiness now, maybe we dont need HRule.

I'll develop the Calender resources asap and see. Of course HR isnt tooexpensive ,and we are Organized. Madrid will be a good coast commerce city.

Edit; we have a GG. I'm thinking super medic. There will be other GG's and we dont have our Uber prod city to put him in yet.
 
Gak . I deleted my auto log somehow.

Here's the turns from memory;

Turn 1 Some militry moves to the south border.

Turn 2 Augustus wants us to cut ties with Ragnar. Hard one. I agree and Raggy is not speaking to us. So clear enemies are Sally, Raggy. Possible allies for now, Kublai , Augustus, and his pleased buddy Churchill.

Turns 3,4,5,6 whipped a few catapults. All military down from Madrid. Whipped an archer onto the monestary in Madrid.

Civil service in. Start on Machinery ( 7 turns ... not bad). Revolted to Bearacracy, only costing 1 gpt more than before, good , but like a big dummy forgot to go to Hrule
Workers furiously developing calender resources.
We have plenty of these coming on line. We can sell the excess and keep that slider up up up.

Great Merchant born in Barcelona ! I send him off to Rome, maybe London for cash, and send a chariot along too to make sure he gets there and to scout out Sally. Sally's first city has a spear andan archer.

The original plan of by passing this city to pilage his iron and horse wont work becasue his culture has coverd that whole area, so it could be a standard attack on the first city, or maybe not. It will be up to Fro to decide how to do
it.

Turns to 15

I went through to 15 too and now the stack is ready to go. The merchant is in London but it's getting 900 as in Rome. He could lighbuulb paper, but... your call Fro. I swapped to H rule here as our pop is just catching the happy cap.

I promoted a lot of the axes, sorry about that but I did it too heal them real fast. We have a medic 3 chariot.
That stack should do well even against longbows, which I fear we will meet in Mecca.Just noticed there are no spaers in there . oops . He dosent have construction, so no elephants.

I have stationed 2 chariots who volunteered to die for the empire attempting to pillage the horse and the iron. We will see if that happens.

So , it's all up to you Fro.

Mice - just played
Fro UP
Xyqtt - on deck
Fbelintani.

turnsets, 10 -15 as you see fit.
 

Attachments

Good turns here, Mice! Lost your autolog? Have you looked under the carpet? :lol:

Well, about the GG, that was the right call. I forgot to write about him. Now we have a good chance to get to Mecca. The first city will go easily (too bad we can't use the jumbos. Spear eat jumbos too) and the stack will heal fast.

About the GM, I see no point in lightbulbing paper. We are on the tech lead and we don't need the normal lightbulb path to liberalism. The only problem on getting too much gold is some greedy people demanding it from us. But we will soon be able to upgrade our axes to maces. Maybe it's a good call.

Some general advice for me here:

mice said:
I swapped to H rule here as our pop is just catching the happy cap.

When this happens, I usually crack the whip. I almost never use Hereditary Rule. I usually revolt to it when I get Bureaucracy, but I seldom put more than 1 garrison in the city. What I hear is that is useful to have large cities to develop cottages and run specialists. Aside from our variant, is that really useful?
 
Yes we should start to use the whip when the happy cap comes close. No need to have big city when you can't produce a thing.
 
So off we go. Sally doesn't have longbows yet, but Ragnar has feudalism so it won't be long until its spread about.

Turn 1 - 620 AD We tech to machinery. Next target is engineering for trebuchets. Churchill researches theology and flips to Christianity. Unfortunately Saladin's borders have popped so our iron pillaging chariot is no longer in a neutral zone. When I declare war he's going to get pushed out.

War declared. Damascus is defended by (giggle) 2 archers and a spearman.

Turn 2 - 640 AD Our chariot wins vs the archer defending Saladin's iron and successfully pillages it. Our southern chariot eliminates his elephant supplies. We take Damascus at the cost of one elephant. Dick Whittington reaches London and brings in a cool 1100 gold, so science is back up to 80% (-16)

Turn 3 - 660 AD Having completed their missions, our daring chariots are slaughtered. The rest of the army heals in Damascus.

Turn 6 - 720 AD Saladin has a galley pillaging our fishing boats in Boston. Grr. Our army moves into position for the assault on Baghdad.

Turn 7 - 740 AD Saladin adopts Vassalage - he's got Feudalism, this might put the brakes on our attack slightly. One longbow immediately appears in Baghdad. We take it at the cost of another elephant.

Turn 8 - 760 AD Stack healing. I promote our 3 city raider III axes to macemen. Washington is growing unhappy and unhealthy and I decide to try for the Hanging Gardens - we're going to have a lot of large cities with all those farms so it wouldn't hurt to have it. And I love even the smallest chance of a Great Engineer!

Turn 9 - 780 AD Augutus builds the Great Library.

Turn 10 - 800 AD We defeat Saladin's rather pitiful counter and the stack sets off for Mecca. There are several elephants on the way to reinforce it, and as long as we keep his iron pillaged he can't make any more spears. Depending on the amount of longbows in Mecca we may be able to take it or might have to wait for Trebs - Engineering next turn! We've taken 2 out of Saladin's 4 core cities very easily. He has a couple of other cities springing up but they're size 1 and will be easy to finish off. In a few turns we should be able to bring him to his knees.
 
Wow, that's great. 1 Archer on the iron. good break for us. Sorry I didnt whip a trireme in Boston, my mistake , nevermind.

Tech direction? Guilds for Knights ? Bumps up the workshop too.

Fbelintani, you're right about whipping and HR. I didn't think through the variant.

With that many catapults I don't think we need to wait for trebs. We have reasonable production, so it's better to burn up the seige we have and build replacements, especially to get that prize, Mecca.

Agree on the gardens, I love that wonder too.

Xyqtt, it's all up to you.

My suggestion if you want it, Take Mecca with any means necessary. Burn half the catapults, or more if needed , ie if the CIII maces have odds less than 70%, throw in another cat. We can replace them, and after Mecca we may need to sue for peace anyway. If you lose a mace or two, no worries, we need Mecca.

My main concern is that we have no friends. After Mecca we can convert to Hinduism. This will put us in favor with Augustus/Churchill.

Then we can build military for finishing Saladin,defending against Ragnar.

With all the elephants, even if Ragnar declares we can deal with his stacks of horse archers. Other ideas about diplomacy, religion?


Roster;

Fro - just kicked butt

Xyqtt - fate of the empire rests on your shoulders (no pressure)

Fbelintani , on deck

Mice .
 
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