The Luchuirp

[wilboman]

I'm feeling that the best way to work it is to make the golems start weaker than usual, but with Barnaxus' promotions they'll end up slightly stronger than the flesh-and-blood units they replace.

 

[Corlindale]

The possible downside of reducing the base strength of golems is that the Luchuirp will be even more crippled when Barnaxus dies. But I guess that's what we've wanted to achieve anyway - anyone fighting the Luchuirp should go straight for Barnaxus.

 

[Chalid]

I vote for extra HP on the golems but slightly reduced Strenght.

 

[Kael]

I vote for extra HP on the golems but slightly reduced Strenght.

.

 

[eerr]

extra hp...?
how about every golem built starts with the "new" promotion
+20% combat or something,
disappears randomly over time(faster in jungle flood plains and ice tiles),
or after fighting battle(s)

 

[Kael]

extra hp...?

Its a running joke between Chalid and I. He has a way to modify a units hit points (all hit points are currently 1-100). I dont think we need it so I havent checked in his mod. If this situation follows former patterns eventually Chalids logic will be prevail and the change will come in, but Im not sold on the idea yet.

how about every golem built starts with the "new" promotion
+20% combat or something,
disappears randomly over time(faster in jungle flood plains and ice tiles),
or after fighting battle(s)

Thats an interesting idea, but I would tend to go the other way with it. Everytime the golem gets injured it cant heal quite back up to its max again (Chalid would say we reduce his maximum hit points). But in the end I don't think either form of depreciation would be much fun for players, who dont want to have to manage it to make optimal use of their units.

 

[chocmushroom]

I don't think Barnaxus makes the Golems to powerfull. Heres Why.

1st. Golems are more expensive to make. (do they gain any bonus from food if that civ selected? I hope they don't)

2nd. Golems cannot themselves level. This is a very big problem, you can never make a Golem any better than it starts (except Barnaxus). So no tacticle fighting to get better units. This also mean they dont gain benifits from all the city-based improvement that other civs do. Ie with the right civs and improvement you can start with 1 free promotions, and +10 skill points, which is combat 3 if I remember right. True this is not as much as Barnaxus can give, so lets make it that you need to gets certain techs to give him certain abilities. This would mirror the other civs, the more techs, the better their starting units can be.

3rd. World Wonders. The Golem player looses the benifits of world wonders. A free blessed promotion and a free sentry promotion cannot be used by the Golem player, when they can by all other players.

So, overall I can see many good and many bad points to the Golems, and overall I think they balance out quite well.

 

[Kael]

I don't think Barnaxus makes the Golems to powerfull. Heres Why.

1st. Golems are more expensive to make. (do they gain any bonus from food if that civ selected? I hope they don't)

2nd. Golems cannot themselves level. This is a very big problem, you can never make a Golem any better than it starts (except Barnaxus). So no tacticle fighting to get better units. This also mean they dont gain benifits from all the city-based improvement that other civs do. Ie with the right civs and improvement you can start with 1 free promotions, and +10 skill points, which is combat 3 if I remember right. True this is not as much as Barnaxus can give, so lets make it that you need to gets certain techs to give him certain abilities. This would mirror the other civs, the more techs, the better their starting units can be.

3rd. World Wonders. The Golem player looses the benifits of world wonders. A free blessed promotion and a free sentry promotion cannot be used by the Golem player, when they can by all other players.

So, overall I can see many good and many bad points to the Golems, and overall I think they balance out quite well.

Yeahm I did some balancing work on them last weekend. You can see the exact changes in the changelog. Overall I agree with you, but some of their units were to strong and needed to be reduced, and a few were to weak and needed improved.

So the real problem was that there was only one real way to play the Luchuirp (since some of their units were so much better than others), and those overpowered units were even more overpowered with Barnaxus. I hope that in 0.14 they will play out better.

 

[Xanikk999]

I have a suggestion for the luchiurp.

I think the golems should be immune to fear. After all they are statues. In fantasy they arent supposed to have feelings and they follow orders relentlessly and completely willingly.

And they should also be immune to disease. After all, they arent biological beings.

 

[Xuenay]

I think the golems should be immune to fear. After all they are statues.

Golems became immune to fear in patch 0.13D.

Dunno about disease, though.

 

[Kael]

I have a suggestion for the luchiurp.

I think the golems should be immune to fear. After all they are statues. In fantasy they arent supposed to have feelings and they follow orders relentlessly and completely willingly.

And they should also be immune to disease. After all, they arent biological beings.

They should already be both. Do you have golems that are being feared or catching diseases?

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Golems are supposed to be powerful and awe inspiring and if a Civ is known for them even moreso.....anyway I don't have any difficult with them and the Barbs or myself kill them off first and when they are played by me it is still a fight because of certain frailties by comparison to other civs, Irion Golems even with combat promos have great difficulty killing Crossbowmen to Flurries and Defence bonuses for golems should stay equal to anyone else or why bother with using them for sentry.....anyway I love the Luchuirp and will continue to play them even if the Ljosalfar are a more logical choice if I want to dominate......dwarves that are golem masters....what is more for want.......fairness.....dwarves are fair only because the world has never been fair to them in my opinion.........however in game terms if frailties lead to inferiority and right now it doesn't look that way.......maybe new promos for golems that use a certain Team members idea for HIt points would make golems more to everyones feel.......Call it SEASONED or something maybe BATTLEHARDED.....yeah the World Wonder thing is kind of a drag but Kael says he has tweaked it and he is a magician at that.....besides the last thing anyone want is for a golem army to surround and kill every civ they make(even if it would be fun to watch).....I like the top heavy end yet promos TTT often.....I suggest people remember to uswe other units to support the golems their large size requires smaller units for support like crossbowmen ect..else how do they get in the cracks other than smash, smash,smash ohhh....to late the nitpicked you away.

 

[Kael]

Golems are supposed to be powerful and awe inspiring and if a Civ is known for them even moreso.....anyway I don't have any difficult with them and the Barbs or myself kill them off first and when they are played by me it is still a fight because of certain frailties by comparison to other civs, Irion Golems even with combat promos have great difficulty killing Crossbowmen to Flurries and Defence bonuses for golems should stay equal to anyone else or why bother with using them for sentry.....anyway I love the Luchuirp and will continue to play them even if the Ljosalfar are a more logical choice if I want to dominate......dwarves that are golem masters....what is more for want.......fairness.....dwarves are fair only because the world has never been fair to them in my opinion.........however in game terms if frailties lead to inferiority and right now it doesn't look that way.......maybe new promos for golems that use a certain Team members idea for HIt points would make golems more to everyones feel.......Call it SEASONED or something maybe BATTLEHARDED.....yeah the World Wonder thing is kind of a drag but Kael says he has tweaked it and he is a magician at that.....besides the last thing anyone want is for a golem army to surround and kill every civ they make(even if it would be fun to watch).....I like the top heavy end yet promos TTT often.....I suggest people remember to uswe other units to support the golems their large size requires smaller units for support like crossbowmen ect..else how do they get in the cracks other than smash, smash,smash ohhh....to late the nitpicked you away.

I dont know how awe inspiring golems are supposed to be, they just represent a differing mechanic, a front loaded unit that doesn't progress. Iron Golems should destroy Crossbowmen outside of cities and be decent against crossbowmen in cities (if the defenses have been bombarded away). They should be weak against flurries, they are a t3 unit vs a t4 in that example. But a Clockwork Golem should be good against flurries.

The altar of the luonnotar and the tower of eyes apply to all the Luchuirp units besides the golems. And the Luchuirp have access to more promotion granting buildings than any other civ, so I dont feel like they are missing out from that perspective.

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

It wasn't a compaint,honest. Maybe some of has to do with the way the AI handles them I dunno but I love the Luchuirp regardless and the strategy for them just has to be different and I appriciate that and am in no way antagonizing the direction in fact I like it.......I throw out a little understanding to the other players and defend your position it the same breath and am willing to do so again...........reorganize your strategy everybody.........everything is according to plan. The Clockwork Golem Should have His Own Movie and I don't mean in the game but in the Theatres.....scary little dwarves that are really just misunderstood making arcane mechanical monstrosities that people are against until they find that it is the only thing keeping the monsters underground.

Vanilla civ doesn't cut it for me, I like it but the monsters need to play......and the Luchuirp are a welcome protagonist..........wood golems soaked in holy water = vampire slayer........man I try to get you to laugh.....just because the joy you guys bring to others and the energy that a smile(even a dark one) bring to the work.....Hell I am just glad that the Luchuirp aren't like the little people from Phantasm......really thankful.