The Luchuirp
- Thread starter loki1232
- Start date
Chalid
Black Dragon
Do Golems heal faster in cities (i think they should be repaired there).
Never theless the small repair rate will make golems very bad offensive units.
Im no fan of the extra spell for such a basic thing as getting your golems workable again. Especially as the AI won't go the Repairer specifically to the golem.
But does Medic work on golems? if it does not it could be better to simply give the ability to heal golems (increases heal rate) with just enchantment I (something like medic for golems) and make the Dwarfen Adept kind of close combat fighters (with primary UNITAI_ATTACK so that they group with the golems).
Oh and i feel other mages should be able to repair golems as well if we do it per spell. They won"t have golems so it is no problem at all. (And we dont need speciall Dwarfen Adepts)
Never theless the small repair rate will make golems very bad offensive units.
Im no fan of the extra spell for such a basic thing as getting your golems workable again. Especially as the AI won't go the Repairer specifically to the golem.
But does Medic work on golems? if it does not it could be better to simply give the ability to heal golems (increases heal rate) with just enchantment I (something like medic for golems) and make the Dwarfen Adept kind of close combat fighters (with primary UNITAI_ATTACK so that they group with the golems).
Oh and i feel other mages should be able to repair golems as well if we do it per spell. They won"t have golems so it is no problem at all. (And we dont need speciall Dwarfen Adepts)
Corlindale
Emperor
I'm actually in favour of skipping regeneration for golems completely, but the 5% cut is ok too. Requiring Adepts for maintenance seems very realistic, and I don't think it will weaken the golems too much.
They will be dependent on their mage companions, but I've always felt golems should be that anyway, but more importantly they will be able to heal more quickly than living units if they have someone performing repairs on them, while living armies have to wait for High Priests and Heal for a similar regenerative power. But as always it's hard to form a qualified opinion before we've had the chance to check it out in-game.
They will be dependent on their mage companions, but I've always felt golems should be that anyway, but more importantly they will be able to heal more quickly than living units if they have someone performing repairs on them, while living armies have to wait for High Priests and Heal for a similar regenerative power. But as always it's hard to form a qualified opinion before we've had the chance to check it out in-game.
Chalid
Black Dragon
I like the idea as well but it will cripple Lurchip AI offensives. That is if we do not speciffically tell the AI to move its adepts with its golems (which would require either a force setting of the unitAI - therfor crippling their adepts or a uniqe unitai for them).
But the more i think of it... other AIs do not heal them as well so it seems ok/they only attach healers if they are of unitai_ATTACK...
How about addding a new unitai Healer that is typically used by disciple units (kind of a variation of the mage AI) and attaches itself to big stacks to keep them with good health (like the player does with his healers). That one would work for the lurchip as well.
And it would not be to difficult to introduce (i could easily slip it in with the mage AI)
But the more i think of it... other AIs do not heal them as well so it seems ok/they only attach healers if they are of unitai_ATTACK...
How about addding a new unitai Healer that is typically used by disciple units (kind of a variation of the mage AI) and attaches itself to big stacks to keep them with good health (like the player does with his healers). That one would work for the lurchip as well.
And it would not be to difficult to introduce (i could easily slip it in with the mage AI)
Kael
Deity
Chalid said:
Dont worry about it yet. Lets get the function in and working, get playtest feedback and see how we want it before we worry about adjusting the AI.
In the begining if your MageAi can just keep casters in protected stacks I think we will be part of the way there (since the spell will be available when the stack is hurt and Talchas built a Spellflavor in for healing). We can fine tune after that if needed.
Im hoping to release an internal 0.13 candidate Sunday. Do you think you could send me the SDK changes you have Saturday so I can get a build together? After that we will probably be in lockdown (for everything but fixes) until public release on 6/23 (if everything tests well).
Chalid
Black Dragon
I wanted to send the changes today or tomorrow so that you have enough time to get acquainted with them. 
.
The Problem with the Mage Selection groups is that troops in them (mage + 1 or two protectors) do not attack unless they have very good chances (so that the mage is not left alone). So the Offensive Mages do not qualify very well as buffers. And an additional UNITAI for mages might be good for another reason as well... its less predictable.
.The Problem with the Mage Selection groups is that troops in them (mage + 1 or two protectors) do not attack unless they have very good chances (so that the mage is not left alone). So the Offensive Mages do not qualify very well as buffers. And an additional UNITAI for mages might be good for another reason as well... its less predictable.
Kael
Deity
Chalid said:I wanted to send the changes today or tomorrow so that you have enough time to get acquainted with them.
The Problem with the Mage Selection groups is that troops in them (mage + 1 or two protectors) do not attack unless they have very good chances (so that the mage is not left alone). So the Offensive Mages do not qualify very well as buffers. And an additional UNITAI for mages might be good for another reason as well... its less predictable.
That would be awesome, Im sure everyone would love to dig into testing early.
loki1232
Loki
Declassified 
Kael
Deity
Here is another design thread for those interested in seeing how we ended up where we are. Remember this thread started before 0.12 came out so the ideas you see in it are really modeling them to where they are today. Again its interesting to see that it is really a group effort, and we put in tons of good ideas before picking only what we feel is the best for inclusion.
Kael
Deity
Another interesting thing to note is that the design process for both this and the Kuriotates has nothing to do with the D&D campaign I ran. I really appreciate all of the compliments I get about the world references but you will see from this that we don't design based on the D&D game. We design to make the best mod possible and use the D&D stuff as flavor and a guide, nothing more.
loki1232 said:Declassified
Oh, I know that the Rock Golem doesn't require any resources to build, but could it possibly have a halved production time (or some such) if you happen to have stone?
(One of those things that doesn't have a deep design purpose but just cries out to be there for the sake of flavor)
ChaoticWanderer
Warlord
id like to see a Golem catapult crossbreed something that looked like a Large Scorpion
Kael
Deity
Xuenay said:
Oh, I know that the Rock Golem doesn't require any resources to build, but could it possibly have a halved production time (or some such) if you happen to have stone?
(One of those things that doesn't have a deep design purpose but just cries out to be there for the sake of flavor)
There is no rock golem. And the golems that require stone or marble (gargoyle, nullstone golem, arcane golem) require those resources so it wouldnt make much sense to speed production with them too.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Maybe for their archery units, if they merit the art work for it, they could use intricate dwarven crossbows. Fewer than the total archery units availible to other civs but with some unique advatage, maybe negating withdraw chance or first strikes. To give them some archers who fit with the tinkers.
possibly, you could give them higher than average strength, but they have a 15% chance to acquire a broken promotion when attacking giving them -50% str. until they have repair cast on them. But I'm sure that that might screw over the ai...
possibly, you could give them higher than average strength, but they have a 15% chance to acquire a broken promotion when attacking giving them -50% str. until they have repair cast on them. But I'm sure that that might screw over the ai...
ChaoticWanderer
Warlord
i thought for the archery unit a thorn golem that egts defence bonus for archers and a spike golem which require iron and machine shop to produce golems that are spiked with Iron spikes they both get city garrison bonuses making them like archers
H.GrenadeFrenzy
Laughing Demolitionist
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Messages
- 220
Dwarven Soldiers: Dwarven Cutter, Dwarven Infantry, Dwarven Shock Troop, Battle Dwarf,\
Dwarven Combat Specialist:As above plus, Mountain Born, Rock Born, Earth Born,....Dwarven Skull Taker, Dwarven Cleaver, Dwarven Battle Master, Dwarven Warlord, Mountain Lord,
Golems: Juggernaut,(High level 3 allowed), The Born list above, Termanatrix(uranium/platonium), Cartomisson(prisoncart chested golem that captures enemies and jails them to return home when full), Thunderblade(golem war machine...could explode when destroyed doing damage to everything within 1 tile.
.........Started with names and the last two came to me while writing, maybe you can use something from here, I'll keep at it.......haven't been around recently......continued gaming when I can, though.......Maybe Heal rates could be effected better for Golems if the Luchuirp have Runes of Kilmorph.....Maybe the Great Mother only blesses those whom beset their roads according to her will or visit her Mountains being they all belong to her regardless of whom claims the land surface........she might even be pleased at the prospect of golems.........visiting.
Dwarven Combat Specialist:As above plus, Mountain Born, Rock Born, Earth Born,....Dwarven Skull Taker, Dwarven Cleaver, Dwarven Battle Master, Dwarven Warlord, Mountain Lord,
Golems: Juggernaut,(High level 3 allowed), The Born list above, Termanatrix(uranium/platonium), Cartomisson(prisoncart chested golem that captures enemies and jails them to return home when full), Thunderblade(golem war machine...could explode when destroyed doing damage to everything within 1 tile.
.........Started with names and the last two came to me while writing, maybe you can use something from here, I'll keep at it.......haven't been around recently......continued gaming when I can, though.......Maybe Heal rates could be effected better for Golems if the Luchuirp have Runes of Kilmorph.....Maybe the Great Mother only blesses those whom beset their roads according to her will or visit her Mountains being they all belong to her regardless of whom claims the land surface........she might even be pleased at the prospect of golems.........visiting.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Mud golems--should they have a penalty in desert tiles? I think -1 movement would make sense thematically, although its a small change and isn't needed.
Nikis-Knight said:
I think that falls under the category of "needless complexity". Plus, you'd have to exclude flood plains and oases, and it isn't like mud golems aren't weaker than normal workers anyway (due to being effectively twice as expensive early on).
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Yeah, maybe that idea was half-baked (ba-dum ching)
On another note, is it intentional that golems can't be hasted?
On another note, is it intentional that golems can't be hasted?
Kael
Deity
Nikis-Knight said:
Yes, you can only haste living units (it is body magic).
