The Luchuirp

[Nikis-Knight]

Right now I have no reason to build gargoyles, since I got iron working first and had iron. Other than position on tech tree (I don't recall if it is possible to get them way sooner, but I don't think so) and not needed iron resource (though they still need some resource, so that isn't a huge advantage) gargoyles have no advantage, since even with the +25% (or is it 50? even then) city bonus they are weaker than 10str IG.
I suggest giving them a modest bonus to summons in addition to their current city bonus, on the grounds that medival gargoyles were built to ward off evil spirits.

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Right now I have no reason to build gargoyles, since I got iron working first and had iron. Other than position on tech tree (I don't recall if it is possible to get them way sooner, but I don't think so) and not needed iron resource (though they still need some resource, so that isn't a huge advantage) gargoyles have no advantage, since even with the +25% (or is it 50? even then) city bonus they are weaker than 10str IG.
I suggest giving them a modest bonus to summons in addition to their current city bonus, on the grounds that medival gargoyles were built to ward off evil spirits.

Ward off evil spirits and in some cases fly however in a rhetorical sense does anyone recall the names of the two gargoyles posted outside the temple and recall why they are placed there...........there names are Confusion and Paradox and it is because that front entrance is as far as those two spirits are allowed to go for they must stop where the guardians that bear their name are posted.

 

[Xereq]

I have two ideas so far

1)>enchanter's workshop:
allows golems in the city to recieve a promotion granted for free by a building in that city, along with other golem unique promotions. Perhaps this should be a national wonder making the city it is built in a hub of golem millitary activity for the nation. It could also grant access to tier two promotions like garrison II, and possibly an improvement for heavy and light.

posible unique promotions available at the workshop could be:
>antimagic plates - like magic resistance, only 20% less bonus (entropy)
>war runes - +20% city attack, 10% collateral damage (fire mana)
>self-repairing - +10% healing rate (body mana)

these improvemants could also be granted by other buildings or with certain types of mana.

2)>Bone golems could heal damage with every killed living unit and twice with undead. I like the idea of a golem that grafts parts of it's enemies to itself after every kill. You could also have them gain a promotion with every kill, after three promotions they could spawn a fledgling bone golem at half health and the promotions reset, like the golem got too big from to many bones and split into two new ones.

 

[chocmushroom]

Golem Workers

Now, a Golem will go on working and working and working, with no need to eat, sleep or rest. For this reason I think that Mud Golems should build improvements faster than normal workers..... but maybe not at the start. Maybe mud is not a good thing to make Golem from, so for a basic workers it's ok, but you could have a better worker.

So, maybe there should be a Clay Golem. This would do as above, work at a faster pace than normal, but they would also be able to defend themselves. I mean, how many wolves would attack and hurt something made of clay, compared to them fleshy human workers.
So, a clay golem could be avalible after a certain tech, it would be a 2 power creature which cannot attack and build's improvements at double (or 1/3 faster) speed. ........Or, maybe have power 1 or 2 and have +150% vs animals. An axe weilding orc can damage a bit of clay, but why would a tiger even think of attacking them.

It makes sense to me.

 

[Chalid]

mud golems work with double speed already (thats why they are more expensive)

 

[chocmushroom]

mud golems work with double speed already (thats why they are more expensive)

Ok, so I didn't realise that, but I still think the Clay Golem is a good idea. Also, your Golems should not be affected by your civ traits, so no double production speed for workers from one trait (But, i'm prob wrong here again & that already happens )

 

[mervvyn]

Barnaxus is very strong - I was able to buff him up to Combat IV or V against barbs and then walked over every opponent in every subsequent war. Clockwork golems were particularly scary with combat V (fun for me though). I feel this is potentially unbalanced, making the Luichurp player who uses Barnaxus well hard to beat.

 

[Kael]

Barnaxus is very strong - I was able to buff him up to Combat IV or V against barbs and then walked over every opponent in every subsequent war. Clockwork golems were particularly scary with combat V (fun for me though). I feel this is potentially unbalanced, making the Luichurp player who uses Barnaxus well hard to beat.

How to fix it? I really don't want to lose the mechanic. Move Barnaxus later? Reduce his base Str to make it harder to level him?

 

[Zurai]

What's truly sick is The Mithril Golem built at a place with a Blasting Furnace and the building that gives the Heavy promotion, with a Combat 5 Barnaxus. It can cast Tremor, Earthquake, Fireball, and Ring of Fire (or was it Pillar of Fire? I forget), has almost 120 strength when attacking cities (!!!) and 92 normally. Toss in a couple of Flesh Golems with any Divine caster mixed in (so they have Repair and preferably Medic promotions and Regenerate) and you have a truly unbeatable opponent. Even Meshabber of Dis or the Avatar of Wrath wouldn't be able to stop it.

Of course, it takes 600+ turns to set all that up, but it does truly give meaning to "Armageddon".

 

[Zurai]

How to fix it? I really don't want to lose the mechanic. Move Barnaxus later? Reduce his base Str to make it harder to level him?

What I would do is change the mechanic slightly. I love the flavor of it, but all golems automatically getting combat 5 is just too strong. Instead, only let golems choose promotions that Barnaxus actually has (instead of not being able to choose any promotions). That way they'd still have to level up on their own, but it makes them much stronger with Barnaxus around than if he gets killed.

 

[Kael]

What's truly sick is The Mithril Golem built at a place with a Blasting Furnace and the building that gives the Heavy promotion, with a Combat 5 Barnaxus. It can cast Tremor, Earthquake, Fireball, and Ring of Fire (or was it Pillar of Fire? I forget), has almost 120 strength when attacking cities (!!!) and 92 normally. Toss in a couple of Flesh Golems with any Divine caster mixed in (so they have Repair and preferably Medic promotions and Regenerate) and you have a truly unbeatable opponent. Even Meshabber of Dis or the Avatar of Wrath wouldn't be able to stop it.

Of course, it takes 600+ turns to set all that up, but it does truly give meaning to "Armageddon".

Oddly enough I dont really mind that. The Avatars are the Tech victory condition. I figure its more satisfying to be able to go our and destory your enemies than to get a popup that says you have won because you researched ubertech.

 

[Zurai]

Oddly enough I dont really mind that. The Avatars are the Tech victory condition. I figure its more satisfying to be able to go our and destory your enemies than to get a popup that says you have won because you researched ubertech.

Oh, I agree completely. I was just illustrating how insane TMG gets with Barnaxus and intelligent golem forge upgrades. I checked the combat log and it was doing as much as 40-50 hit points of damage per attack when it was attacking cities. Brutal. Like you said, and I said for that matter, it's an end-game, Armageddon unit, and it really does feel like an Armageddon unit when the Luichurp build it. It isn't nearly as strong when another civ gets it though, since they don't get the golem buildings or Barnaxus.

 

[mervvyn]

How to fix it? I really don't want to lose the mechanic. Move Barnaxus later? Reduce his base Str to make it harder to level him?

I like the mechanic too; but I think that it is potentially too easy to level him.
Rather than making him weaker and thus less useful as a unit in his own right (which would work to a degree) I think that slowing the rate at which he gains xp could help, if that's possible. Even if you did that, eventually he'd get to combat V, and I find that a bit strong - if you don't think so, that's fine though. I was thinking maybe a line of golem promotions (Golem I-V) which gave lesser strength bonuses like 10% or so would be less severe, but I realise that is adding a whole lot more promotions to the game.
Also, I think that the base golems could be overpowered; wood, iron and clockwork are relatively strong for their respective eras - I know this is because they can't normally level, but with the Barnaxus mechanic... they're very strong. And even after you kill Barnaxus, they're still quite strong against relatively unpromoted units from other civs, especially the iron golems, and clockwork. Perhaps you could downgrade the iron and clockwork strengths by 1-2?
Incidentally, what I've seen of the AI using Barnaxus wasn't that good - for such an important unit strategically, he shouldn't be be left alone in a square, especially not going on the attack.
Finally, I was thinking that maybe if Barnaxus was killed, the player should have some way of continuing his powers; that way you could reduce the strength of the golems and be less concerned about a Luichurp player being overrun. What I was thinking was a national wonder along the lines of "Ode to Barnaxus" or something like that, which granted all golems some or all of the combat promotions that Barnaxus had, and at least combat I (or golem I if you had that). Probably not up to combat V though, as that would make it unfair to others who had hunted Barnaxus to hamper the Luichurp army.
Let me know what you think, I really enjoy the mod and the way you listen to the community input.

 

[Kael]

I like the mechanic too; but I think that it is potentially too easy to level him.
Rather than making him weaker and thus less useful as a unit in his own right (which would work to a degree) I think that slowing the rate at which he gains xp could help, if that's possible. Even if you did that, eventually he'd get to combat V, and I find that a bit strong - if you don't think so, that's fine though. I was thinking maybe a line of golem promotions (Golem I-V) which gave lesser strength bonuses like 10% or so would be less severe, but I realise that is adding a whole lot more promotions to the game.
Also, I think that the base golems could be overpowered; wood, iron and clockwork are relatively strong for their respective eras - I know this is because they can't normally level, but with the Barnaxus mechanic... they're very strong. And even after you kill Barnaxus, they're still quite strong against relatively unpromoted units from other civs, especially the iron golems, and clockwork. Perhaps you could downgrade the iron and clockwork strengths by 1-2?
Incidentally, what I've seen of the AI using Barnaxus wasn't that good - for such an important unit strategically, he shouldn't be be left alone in a square, especially not going on the attack.
Finally, I was thinking that maybe if Barnaxus was killed, the player should have some way of continuing his powers; that way you could reduce the strength of the golems and be less concerned about a Luichurp player being overrun. What I was thinking was a national wonder along the lines of "Ode to Barnaxus" or something like that, which granted all golems some or all of the combat promotions that Barnaxus had, and at least combat I (or golem I if you had that). Probably not up to combat V though, as that would make it unfair to others who had hunted Barnaxus to hamper the Luichurp army.
Let me know what you think, I really enjoy the mod and the way you listen to the community input.

I think your right. The golems were balanced based on the assumption that they couldnt gain any combat promotions. Now that they can their base str probably needs to be reduced.

 

[thearkane]

if you reduce the golems str,it will make them less usefull for other civs.

 

[Oldfrt]

Just thinking about these golems...

I would imagine that they would operate nearly in reverse to the werewolves.... in that the golems would get a huge defence bonus, and a heavy negative modifier on offence.

It would mean that your game play would have to be totally different when playing as this civ as you could defend cities/resources with just one unit, yet carrying out an offence would be more tricky... either lots of units, or having to "soak up" experience in order to build up some offensive capability.

Werewolves if used in conjunction with units with a good defence are fabulous offensive units, they can hit strong and not have to worry about being hit back..... it would be good to have something that can do it in reverse..... of course, in this case you would need to restrict this from building the Baron or this civ becomes unstoppable...

 

[Kael]

if you reduce the golems str,it will make them less usefull for other civs.

The only golem other civs can use is the copper golem, he may be left alone.

 

[z00t]

maybe barnaxus should be kinda like a "reverse hero" with his promotions, so that if u just level him up against barbs and then sit him somewhere safe he slowly loses his combat I-V promotions over time.

with the bone golem, how does the mechanic work? i noticed playing my last game that when he uses his enemies bones a couple of times a second bone golem appeared with full health. after reading this thread though i think maybe he was supposed to heal himself not clone himself?

 

[thearkane]

The only golem other civs can use is the copper golem, he may be left alone.

thank you,while it is not the most important unit i have build it helps.

 

[gandalf51]

How to fix it? I really don't want to lose the mechanic. Move Barnaxus later? Reduce his base Str to make it harder to level him?

Maybe you can restrain acces to Combat II-V (or III-V) to certain military techs (like city attack or subdue animal) ?