The Many Roman Empires

[Cuivienen]

The Roman Empire in 400 CE was falling apart. The rift between the western and eastern portions of the Empire had grown, though the two were not yet separate. Tribes to the north from Germania, Frankovia, Gothica and lands beyond plagued the northern border of Rome. In Britain, Rome was pushed to the edge and ready to withdraw entirely.

What if Rome had withdrawn in on itself? What if not only the Byzantine Empire, but also the Britannian, Hispanian, Afrikan and Aegyptian Empires separated from Rome peacefully?

It is 415 CE. Rome has divided into a number of smaller nations:

~ Imperium Romanum (Roma)
~ Imperium Byzantium (Constantinopolis)
~ Imperium Hispanium (Toletum)
~ Britannia Romana (Londinium)
~ Afrika (Carthago)
~ Aegyptus (Alexandria)
~ Palaestina (Hierosolyma/Jerusalem)

To the north, Belgica has also separated from the Empire and the fledgling nations of Germania, Saxonia, Burgundy and Frankovia struggle to expand across the now-uninhabited northern edge of Old Rome. To the east, Sassanid Persia has subdued Parthia and become a major threat to Byzantium and Palaestina. The Celtic tribes still roam Galicia, Scotland and Ireland and are portrayed as one nation. The Huns have begun their migration across the plains and have come nearly unimpeded to the doorstep of Byzantium. The Scandinavians have begun to raid the northern shores of Europe far earlier than in true history.

Can any individual fledgling Rome rebuild the Empire? Will the remnants of the Empire fall to the barbaric tribes or to Sassanid Persia? Only time will tell...

Civs (Civ Replaced):

The Romes:

~ Imperium Romanum (Romans)
~ Imperium Byzantium (Byzantines)
~ Imperium Hispanium (Spanish)
~ Britannia Romana (English)
~ Afrika (Carthaginians)
~ Aegyptus (Egyptians)
~ Palaestina (Hittites)

The Others:

~ Frankovia (French)
~ Belgica (Dutch)
~ Burgundy (Americans)
~ Celtic Tribes (Celts)
~ Germania (Germany)
~ Saxonia (Greeks)
~ Scandinavia (Scandinavia)
~ The Huns (Mongols)
~ Sassanid Persia (Persia)


Okay, I need serious help with this scenario. I have a lot of ideas, but not a lot of actual Scenario-creating skills. So far, I do have a map, though it will need to be extended slightly south and east in the MapTweaker to allow enough room for the Sassanids and Aegyptians. Modded rules for the map will include:

~ No cities in Deserts or Tundra
~ +1 Food in certain Forests (LM Forest)
~ Resources combined from Rise and Fall of Rome Conquests (Olive Oil and Silver both included)

Also, the scenario will have a tech tree somewhat akin to that of the Fall of Rome scenario with a separate few techs for the barbarians (though no super-units).

Any suggestions? (Or offerings of much-needed help?)

 

[Xen]

too many Sub-Roman states- most of them would have never left the empire voluntarilly because to leave it would als to be leaving behind its benifits

basically,t here are only 4- the western roman empire, the eastern roman empire, Britannia, and, after barbatrians had overrun gual, a new new short lived Roman kingdom sprag up (or rather reamind) there, and decalred indipendence from rome

 

[AUGUSTUSAM]

There were many revolts throughtout Roman History and in your scenario you can just make some of them successful.

In Spain(Hispana) You could use Maximus as the leader:

Maximus was the son (or possibly a retainer) of Gerontius, a general of Constantine III in Spain in 409. His character was described as modest and humble. After Gerontius rebelled against Constantine III, he acclaimed Maximus as Augustus in Tarraco. Gerontius then marched into Gaul, leaving Maximus in Spain. When he learnt of the defeat of Gerontius by Constantius at Arles in 411, Maximus fled to the barbarian troops who had remained in Spain. After his flight, little is known of Maximus. He was apparently still alive in 417, and is probably the Maximus captured in Spain in 422 and executed at Ravenna.

You could have Maximus stay in Spain and set up that part...

In Africa, you could use Count Boniface, a rival of Aetius,

Boniface then inadvertently got involved in a conspiracy contrived by Aetius. “He secretly persuaded Placidia to recall Boniface from the government of Africa; he secretly advised Boniface to disobey the Imperial summons; to the one he represented the order as a sentence of death; to the other, he stated the refusal as a signal of revolt; and when the credulous an unsuspected count (Boniface) had armed the province in his defence, Aetius applauded his sagacity in foreseeing the rebellion which his own perfidy had excited.”
It is my understanding that he was attacked by the forces of the west and finally decided try and forge an alliance with the Vandals. He later relented and returned to fight the Vandals who had come across the straits of Gibraltar at his invitation. Aetius treachery was exposed and Boniface was accepted back into the Roman fold. He continued to fight the Vandals and lost moving to Hippo Regius, which was then put under siege for 14 months. Placidia request help for Boniface and an eastern army was dispatched to assist him. He marched against the Vandals – won the first but lost the second battle which “irretrievably decided the fate of Africa.”
He returned to the palace of Ravenna and accepted with gratitude the rank of patrician and master-general of the Roman armies. However, Aetius found out his treachery had been exposed and returned from Gaul at the head of an army made up primarily of “barbarians”. Boniface met him and Aetius was beaten but Boniface received a fatal wound that killed him with a matter of days.

In Britain there were numerous rebellions, probably the most famous was Constantine the Great's:

When Constantius died, on 25 July 306, at Eburacum (York), Constantine was at his side. The soldiers at once proclaimed him Augustus; [[6]] Constantine henceforth observed this day as his dies imperii. Having settled affairs in Britain swiftly, he returned to the Continent, where the city of Augusta Treverorum (Trier) served as his principal residence for the next six years. There, too, in 307, he married Maximian's daughter Fausta, [[7]] putting away his mistress Minervina, who had borne him his first son, Crispus. [[8]] Trier's "Kaiserthermen" (Imperial Baths) and Basilica (the aula palatina ) give evidence to this day of Constantine's residence in the city.

For the Gallic Empire you could use:

Victorinus (269 - 271)
Marcus Piavonius Victorinus had a successful career under the first emperor of the so-called Gallic Empire, Postumus. This able military leader had been seen by many as the natural successor to Postumus. He served as tribunus praetorianorum in 266 and 267 AD and then share the consulship with Postumus in 267 and 268 AD. The troops in Augusta Treverorum proclaimed him emperor of the Gallic Empire in the year 269 AD . He was recognized in Gaul and Britain but not in Hispania. The capital and the mint of his reign were in Colonia Agrippinia.
Most of his reign as Gallic Emperor he spent trying to recover territories lost to the Central Empire. Victorinus faced trouble in Gaul, namely Claudius Gothicus who started a rebellion in Augustodunum Haeduorum. It took Victorinus seven months to capture the city. After this success he returned in triumph to Colonia Agrippinia and took residence there. In early AD 271 Victorinus was killed, after one of his officials learned that the emperor had an affair with his wife. Victorinus' mother Victoria held enough authority, among the troops of the Gallic Empire, after the murder to decide the question of his succession. She apparently bribed the troops in order to arrange their support for the successor of her choice, the governor of Aquitania, Tetricus.

These men are widely spread about historically so you may want to choose others more closely dated together but I thought I would give you some info!

 

[Cuivienen]

Actually, I planned on having Gaul remain part of Rome proper, as it had been a Roman province for so long. Indeed, the scenario isn't intended to necessarily portray a historical possibility as to provide an interesting alternative. That said, I know very little about actual Roman figures at the time, so help with leaders would be appreciated.

Also, one of the main reasons I had the Empire so divided was because of the possibility of additional splits to add stability as Emperors like Constantine realized that Rome was simply too large to remain stable.

Additionally, some, though not all, of the Roman Empires would be Christian -- Palaestina, Aegyptus and Byzantium definitely and perhaps Rome proper as well. However, the divisions of the Empire have impeded Christianity's unification under a single bishop (the Pope) and so each Empire practices a different "type" of Christianity.


In any case, moving beyond strictly historical accounts, I need city lists, GL lists, etc. (Obviously, some of the GLs will be fictitious)

I have placed cities for a few nations. These, however, are ONLY placed cities and not city lists.

Rome

Roma
Neapolis
Tarentum
Regio
Syracusae
Lilybaeum
Caralis
Aleria
Ancona
Ravenna
Aquileia
Milan
Genua
Massilia
Narbo
Burdigala
Lugdunum
Cenebum
Durocotorum
Redonum (filler Brittany town)

Hispania

Toletum
Barsino
Tarraco
Legio
Valentia
Cordoba
Emerita
Carthago Nova
Italica

Africa

Carthago
Leptis Magna
Tripoli (Latin name?)
Madauras
Thaumugati
Hippo
Tipasa
Tingis

Britain

Londinium
Isca
Lindum
Deva
Eboracum
Luguvalium

 

[Xen]

for the western Rome, depending on the time again you migth want to make it polyhteistic still- the "pagan" EMperor Julian the aposts, nephew to constantine, and raised as a christian by birth converted to the hold rleigon and was hugelly populer in the western Empire

 

[civilleader]

Shouldn't Palestina be Judea, that's the roman name for Israel.
Also if France remains roman since it was for so long, than why is Spain separate, since it was roman for even longer time. Nice ideas for a mod though, waiting to play it.

 

[Xen]

Rome changes the name to Plaestin after the first (or second) Judean revolt

 

[Cuivienen]

My theory on Spain was that it is farther from Rome, thus harder for the Romans to keep under their control. In addition, southern Gaul, at least, was a part of Rome for longer than Spain (pre-Second Punic War). Thus, southern cities like Lugdunum, Massilia and Narbo, while they were once Celtic (maybe not Narbo, I don't know), were strongly Roman by the late Empire. Besides, many overflow Italians from the crowded Italian cities settled in Gaul, stabilizing the region.

Civ Leaders so far:

Imperium Hispanium --
Maximus

Imperium Byzantium --
maybe Justinian?

Britannia Romana --
Ambrosius Aurelianus (by many accounts, King Arthur)

Afrika --
Boniface

For Frankovia, the Huns and Sassanid Persia, a lot will be directly copied from the Fall of Rome Conquest (unless anyone has suggestion to improve that data).

 

[Cuivienen]

Anyone there? I'll have some more placed cities listed soon.

 

[AUGUSTUSAM]

Great! Cannot wait!

 

[Androrc]

Originally posted by Xen
too many Sub-Roman states- most of them would have never left the empire voluntarilly because to leave it would als to be leaving behind its benifits

basically,t here are only 4- the western roman empire, the eastern roman empire, Britannia, and, after barbatrians had overrun gual, a new new short lived Roman kingdom sprag up (or rather reamind) there, and decalred indipendence from rome

And Romania? Aren't they romanized slavs who maintain Byzantine culture?

 

[Metacomet]

Originally posted by Androrc


And Romania? Aren't they romanized slavs who maintain Byzantine culture?

By that time Romania was the house of the Visighots

 

[Xen]

actually ast the time Rome conqoured tha rea it was ruled by the dacians, but pressure form other areas and IMO, a rathe rmis guided emperor conceeded the area (althogh unlike Brotain did, Romanai would not succed in becoming an indipendent Roman state after Rome forced autonomy on it)

at athat point the Visigoths moved in, adopted a great deal of Roman culture and staye dfor while, till the slaves then came into the area... Aaminion could explain the ethnicity of the region MUCH better then i can though