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The Mongols

Ision

Master
Joined
Mar 8, 2003
Messages
452
I have decided to do a review on each CIV. My intention is to encourage debate and hopefully to help others (and myself) in their game play.

The Mongols

Have you ever wanted see Bismark humbled, Catherine beg for mercy, and even Caesar himself paying tribute gold for fear of his life? Is there a streak of the tyrant in you, a desire to wreak havoc and throttle all those that stand in your way? Is your vision of the perfect empire a vision of, “…a boot stamping on a human face – forever”? If you answered yes there is a solution to your desires – the Mongols. The very name of the CIV itself conjures up images of huge empires, horseback warriors, and feared rulers.

Expansionist and Militaristic, the Mongol traits are tailor made for the warmonger. The access to scout units gives the Mongol a large advantage in locating crucial resources and luxuries. On average the Mongol will locate and map-out his rival CIVs at an accelerated pace. Added to this are the expansionist advantages with goody huts. A typical Mongol game will see you with an early tech lead and possibly even a free settler. This early tech lead translates out to giving the Mongol a variety of early strategies unavailable to many CIVs. Along with this, the Mongol-starting tech of Pottery gives him instant access to granaries and the resulting benefits of faster settler creation. The Mongol is very commonly the largest and most sprawling of the Ancient Age empires. The Mongol CIV is also good for getting Wonders. No, you don’t build them – you take them from others! For governments, no need to haggle with congress and such, straight Monarchy followed by a switch to Fascism/Communism is always a good strategy with this CIV.

The expansionist trait works on the militaristic trait by allowing that CIV an early cushion in research, superior terrain knowledge, and the faster creation of new towns. This in turn allows the Mongol to create an effective military force far faster than most of his rivals. The early access to cheap barracks and archers gives the Mongol the option of launching an ultra early archer rush on his nearest neighbor. The Mongol can alternate his early settler creation with early wars, thus expanding his empire both internally and at the expense of his neighbors. A quick beeline to horseback riding may give the Mongol an early mobile force that few CIVs can withstand at such an early stage of the game. God forbid the Mongol pulls off 3 or 4 early MGLs! You may find yourself with a domination or conquest win in record time! Those cheap early barracks allow a steady stream of veteran combat units – usually pouring out from a steady stream of newly created/conquered towns that are far more numerous than all the other Civs. You really can re-create a huge sprawling Middle Age empire that mirrors their actual history!

On the downside is what I consider to be mediocre UU. The Keshik is a 60 shield 4-2-2 knight level UU, with 'zero' range bombard and also has a terrain advantage on hills and mountains. Of all the Knight level UUs available with Chivalry, the Keshik is the weakest. Barring an unusually mountainous map, the unit simply does not have the same impact as the Arab Ansar or Chinese Rider. Even the Indian War Elephant with its extra hp and no resource advantage is a better deal. That said, the unit is 10 shields cheaper than the standard knight, and the terrain bonus can be handy at times. It can still be used quite effectively. The second downside is the most obvious. The Mongol traits are totally geared towards speed and war; their infrastructure building is slow and expensive. I suppose if you’re enough of a masochist, you could use this CIV for a builder strategy, but why bother. Those players that enjoy a more flexible approach in their games are better served elsewhere. The Mongol is for the serious warmonger.

So how do the Mongols fare with C3C? After playing a few games with Mongols again, I have come to the following conclusions:

The expansionist trait is more valuable now, that combined with the greater power of armies accentuate the warmonger traits of the Mongol even more. Among Civs to warmonger with, the Mongols are certainly a top tier choice. Better than most, but outclassed by many. The superior UUs of many of the other CIVs used for warmongering are a minus for the Mongols. Also, most of the better warmonger CIVs lend themselves more easily to a builder/peaceful style if need be. The Mongols are far more constrained in their options.

Summary; The Mongols are a solid warmongers Civ with great appeal to the historically minded. However, while a top tier CIV for warmongering, they are on the bottom end of that tier. This combined with their poor performance as a builder/peaceful Civ choice places them among the bottom 10 (3rd tier) in overall performance.

Below is the link to my other reviews:

other CIV Reviews by Ision
 

DruguLa

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
17
Location
New York
Lol the Mongols rock! Their UU is pretty unimpressive, but they fare well against pikemen at least :p If you have a mountain blocking access to places on your continent, they can be a semi-help, though.
 

JazzToucan

Warlord
Joined
Nov 29, 2003
Messages
261
I just tried the Mongols on an emporer level game and I have to say the Keshiks are great. They fared pretty good even against musketmen. I used my GA to belt out several dozen and thanks to their upgradeability to cavalry, at 1800 AD I'm just about ten or so turns away from domination victory. The best part about the Keshik is their low cost.
 

Naval Power

Sailing the Seven Seas
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Messages
557
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Nother Good essay Ision i really enjoy these whose up next?
 

Ision

Master
Joined
Mar 8, 2003
Messages
452
I decided to go to the other extreme of the Mongols -

next up to bat - The Babylonians

Ision
 

Haethurn

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50
Originally posted by Ision
Is your vision of the perfect empire a vision of, “…a boot stamping on a human face – forever”? If you answered yes there is a solution to your desires – the Mongols. The very name of the CIV itself conjures up images of huge empires, horseback warriors, and feared rulers.


Yes! 1984 by George Orwell!
 

Maestro

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
13
Location
Ohio
I thought the 1984 reference sounded vaguely familiar, but I couldn't remember where it was from.
 

Hornhelm

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
54
Location
Denmark
I think you underestimate the Keshik a little, Ision. They can move over hills as well as mountains, now, and hills and mountains are all over the place. Because you can attack straight after moving onto one, the defensive bonus means you're less vulnerable to counterattack, meaning a higher survival rate and more Keshiks. On open desert or plains, someone has usually already built roads, so its really only cities surrounded by jungle that you have to be careful of - but cities surrounded by jungle are usually crap anyway. And their lower cost makes up for it. Plus, anyone moving past them gets peppered with arrows thanks to their zone of control attribute.
 

srd2k7

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
23
Heck ya!! 1984 was a great book!! And I agree the mongols are great and were the first PTW civ I ever used.
 

troytheface

Deity
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
3,262
Chariot rush-horse rush-keshik rush- Speed of attack from the get go- the mongols are better then third tier in my opinion. That keshik is cheap and effective (and i didn't know it had defensive bombard - that would make historical sense and would be a great improvement if it is true...)that bombard thing did wonders for the babylonian bowmen-but at any rate the Keshik is easy to mass in that age loaded with knight UU's-and quantity of one's UU is always a good thing to have. (Perhaps japan would be a real nemisis to the Mongols-on vanilla the Samarii was hands down the best UU (it was a feeling on my part but i also read an early review in Civ Fanatics and some guy broke down uu stats in some way and reached the same conclusion which i thought interesting-although someone else came up with the Hoplite based on different criterea- but i could see that as well..that hoplite is a great UU) The Expansionist Trait should get some mention of making the game a bit more fun at the beginning. Once again being a non Naval power doesn't really hurt but it should.(Emperor/huge/Continent)
 

danz

BA in Micro Management
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
438
Location
USA
I must agree with Hornhelp and troytheface. The Keshik sounds like it would gives a lot of bang for the buck... "sounds" because I'm still playing Vanilla Civ 3 and am quite jealous of all the new civs everyone keeps mentioning. This is a little off-topic, but I don't like the sound of the new leader rules. The only way I've been able to compete with the AI on Deity is to be at war most of the time so that I can win battles and crank out leaders, which is the only way I can build any wonders. If I have to be first in tech to get a leader that can build the Great Library, I'm in trouble.
 

Mad2rix

Warlord
Joined
Jun 14, 2004
Messages
287
Location
Japan
And I thought that the Keshik would get a zero range bombard with a strength of 2. Why don't they have such ability? Maybe because they're not meant for defensive purposes, same thing as Iroquois Mounted Warriors, and Egyptian War Chariot.
 

dgfred

Sports Freak
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
7,256
Location
N.C., USA
Persia_Immortal said:
Genghis and The Mongol Horde is a formidable enemy coz they're always demanding tribute - even with their puny armed forces :lol:

Mongols demanding tribute= Me :hammer: Mongols ;) :D .
 

Bad Brett

King
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Messages
828
If someone reads this, explain something to me:

When the defensive bombard first was introduced, I said "Give the keshik the defensive bombard ability". This was a long time ago. Other people here seemed to like the idea and made a "patch request" about this. In my version, the keshik still doesn't have that ability, but something many people don't know is that keshik is the FIRST unit with ZOC.
 

Dogmeat

Lupine humanoid
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
312
Location
Sweden
Ision underestimates the good UU's and overestimates the crappy UU's. And also he describes the effects of the traits in every review... This is getting tedious -.-

By the way. The Keshik doesn't have defensive bombard.
 

wilbill

That Old Time Religion
Joined
Nov 18, 2002
Messages
2,513
Location
North Carolina
Dogmeat said:
Ision underestimates the good UU's and overestimates the crappy UU's.
I have to disagree. I think most players overestimate the "good" UU's and underestimate the "bad" ones. I think almost all the UU's have enough good qualities to be useful in the hands of a good player (by good I mean a player patient enough to learn how to use the unit's capabilities).
Certainly all UU's are not equal but I don't think the differences are as large as a lot of people seem to think.
 

Ision

Master
Joined
Mar 8, 2003
Messages
452
also he describes the effects of the traits in every review... This is getting tedious -.-

Tedious or not - I will continue to do so. My reviews will always assume that the reader has chosen a review that is the first he has ever read.

Ision
 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,553
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
Dogmeat said:
Ision underestimates the good UU's and overestimates the crappy UU's. And also he describes the effects of the traits in every review... This is getting tedious -.-

By the way. The Keshik doesn't have defensive bombard.

Not really. Most of the UUs are better than the normal unit they're based off. Also you more or less have to describe each civs traits for the reason above. The trait combo often interacts with the UU or playstyle of the civ as well- its effectively different in each game even with civs that share the same traits, Pesia/Ottoman, Greece/Korea, Mongols/Zulu.
 
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