The most progressive country in the world

[aelf]

Like I said, in the grand scheme of things allowances for dyslexics don't really matter. Maths is a different case. A dyslexic with allowances can function somewhat as well as a normal person without allowances (with a few exceptions of course). This is not the case with mathematics.

I'm saying, usually there is time. Tests test the skill that is being tested, at least when it comes to mathematics.

I'm not sure where exactly you've made a distinction between how dyslexia affects people's abilities and how discalculia does. But, if that's what you're saying, where does the difference arise?

In most of the exams I've taken, there's barely any spare time. Sure, there are people who are so good (or so bad) that they finish early, but the average test-taker has just about enough time to finish and maybe re-check his/her work once.

 

[Hehehe]

I'm not sure where exactly you've made a distinction between how dyslexia affects people's abilities and how discalculia does. But, if that's what you're saying, where does the difference arise?

Usually if you misspell something it just doesn't matter. But calculate something like the strength of materials wrong and you have grave consequences.

In most of the exams I've taken, there's barely any spare time. Sure, there are people who are so good (or so bad) that they finish early, but the average test-taker has just about enough time to finish and maybe re-check his/her work once.

Well, maybe you should talk to your school/uni about that.

 

[Akka]

No, I made myself the object of that sentence, so my own skills are absolutely relevant to its truth value. My knowledge of grammar rules are atrocious because I never really learned them. Therefore, when I said that he can do any job I can, I actually was thinking about the jobs that I can do right now, which excludes teaching languages.

Yeah, and that's still a very weak cop-out from the rhetorical point you were making.
"grasping at straws" is, IIRC, the expression to describe this.

 

[aelf]

Usually if you misspell something it just doesn't matter. But calculate something like the strength of materials wrong and you have grave consequences.

And the calculations aren't checked?

Well, maybe you should talk to your school/uni about that.

Maybe it's an Anglosphere thing, I don't know. As person without dyslexia or dyscalculia, for a large part of my later education, it has still been a challenge to finish without overly compromising on the quality of my answers.

Yeah, and that's still a very weak cop-out from the rhetorical point you were making.
"grasping at straws" is, IIRC, the expression to describe this.

Maybe you didn't understand the statement. I said "he can do any job that I can, no problem."

Perhaps you'd like to explain how saying that I can't teach languages is a cop out?

 

[wolfigor]

Combat situations are different from normal job situations. In the latter, being able to meet deadlines and do well for assignments is a much better indication of how well a person can manage in most normal jobs.

Not really.
In most jobs delivering in time by agreed quality is a key factor between success and failure:
Every delay costs money directly and, often, delivering late may render all the work useless.

A simple example for both concept from my own experience:

Spoiler :

We had to deliver software to a customer by a certain date (effecting the shipping on market of the final product).
Each day of delay after the deadline cost them a couple of millions of US$ per day!
If the delay would bring the shipping date too late, they would miss the Christmas sales season: it would be a huge commercial failure to start selling when people are no more willing to buy the product.

As Flying Pig (and others) wrote the ability to work quickly is a vital skill in all fields.
Tests do measure our ability to do so.
Allowing extra time for a subset of people reduces the value of a stadardised test.

And the calculations aren't checked?

Yes, they will be checked, and if found wrong all the work will be corrected.
However correcting errors in real projects do costs time and money.

A serious amount of mistakes, even if found in time, do cost a company pretty dearly.

 

[aelf]

Not really.
In most jobs delivering in time by agreed quality is a key factor between success and failure:
Every delay costs money directly and, often, delivering late may render all the work useless.

A simple example for both concept from my own experience:

Spoiler :

We had to deliver software to a customer by a certain date (effecting the shipping on market of the final product).
Each day of delay after the deadline cost them a couple of millions of US$ per day!
If the delay would bring the shipping date too late, they would miss the Christmas sales season: it would be a huge commercial failure to start selling when people are no more willing to buy the product.

As Flying Pig (and others) wrote the ability to work quickly is a vital skill in all fields.
Tests do measure our ability to do so.
Allowing extra time for a subset of people reduces the value of a stadardised test.

You're measuring time in days. Tests measure time in minutes. It's not comparable.

For the third time, I'll say that being able to meet deadlines and deliver quality work is a better indication of how well a person can manage in most jobs.

 

[Flying Pig]

You're measuring time in days. Tests measure time in minutes. It's not comparable.

I hate to say this, but doing lots of work in days is comparable to doing a relatively small amount of work in minutes. Writing a book in a year is comparable to writing an essay in an hour, even though the time-spans are very different.

 

[Hehehe]

And the calculations aren't checked?

They are, hopefully just not by a dyscalculic.

Seriously, this is going nowhere. I've presented my argumentation. I'm done.

 

[aelf]

I hate to say this, but doing lots of work in days is comparable to doing a relatively small amount of work in minutes. Writing a book in a year is comparable to writing an essay in an hour, even though the time-spans are very different.

Maybe you missed this despite being a perfectly normal language-user, so I'm going to repeat it for the fourth time:

being able to meet deadlines and deliver quality work is a better indication of how well a person can manage in most jobs.

If a person can't meet assignment deadlines and submit quality work, then I'd agree with you that that person would be quite incapable of managing in most jobs like normal graduates. In most situations, being able to meet deadlines effectively has more to do with time management than reading or writing speed.

That is all.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

For the whole engineer thing, I think youre missing a big point: I don't think people who have trouble with math would even want to enter a field that has a lot of math.

I got an extra half-hour on my tests so my handwriting would be a bit more legible. Does this mean I wouldnt be able to function in the real world?

 

[Yeekim]

The point of tests should be to measure abilities of the taker. Making allowances to someone because of his handicap kind of defeats the purpose of the test...

 

[Flying Pig]

I got an extra half-hour on my tests so my handwriting would be a bit more legible. Does this mean I wouldnt be able to function in the real world?

No, but it does mean that you're less suited for a job that requires neat handwriting than many other people, because you take longer to output the same quality of handwriting.

 

[aelf]

The alternative to not giving dyslexic people some allowances in tests would be to accept that there will be more people on welfare. But, eh, whatever. Welfare state ftw anyway (not really, but compared to the neoliberal state, yes).

Still, kinda a loss for equality of opportunity, though.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

No, but it does mean that you're less suited for a job that requires neat handwriting than many other people, because you take longer to output the same quality of handwriting.

Note I said legible. Not neat. But the thing is, I wouldn't want to take a job that needed that, because it would be harder.

 

[Yeekim]

The alternative to not giving dyslexic people some allowances in tests would be to accept that there will be more people on welfare.

There are lots of jobs which require neither fluency in math nor in spelling, you know.
However, while they go to school, children with disabilities should receive special help, so they are taught strategies to overcome them.

 

[aelf]

There are lots of jobs which require neither fluency in math nor in spelling, you know.

Without some allowances made during exams, some people with dyslexia might do badly in them, which might affect their job prospects considerably.

 

[Flying Pig]

Without some allowances made during exams, some people with dyslexia might do badly in them, which might affect their job prospects considerably.

Yes, they won't be able to get jobs which look for good results in exams, because they're not as good at doing what the exams ask them to as other people.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Also, another thing: I can compensate for my bad handwriting in other ways.... Really fast touch-typing, for example.

 

[aelf]

Yes, they won't be able to get jobs which look for good results in exams, because they're not as good at doing what the exams ask them to as other people.

That's a lot of jobs, which is why I think some of them might be forced to live on welfare.

The format of exams test for reading and writing speeds, but those are only small components of the knowledge and skills students are usually expected to have at the end of their courses. And they are relatively unimportant for most jobs that do look at your results.

 

[Flying Pig]

Also, another thing: I can compensate for my bad handwriting in other ways.... Really fast touch-typing, for example.

Not with pen and paper, luv.

That's a lot of jobs, which is why I think some of them might be forced to live on welfare.

There's also a lot of jobs for which exam results aren't all that important. My own trade is a good example, but many fields are more interested in experience and your personal qualities than how well you did at school. And as much as I hate to state the obvious, it is completely wrong to artificially make certain people look more attractive to employers than they are with the motivation of keeping the unemployment figures down.