The new RA system, how does it work?

[Trik]

I would really appreciate if some one could elaborate on how it works because so far it doesn't seem to be helping me much.

 

[eazyseeker]

At the end of the RA, you get 50% of the median value of all the technologies you can research.

The median value is considered, well, the value in the middle; say you have 200-300-600; 300 is considered the median value and you'd thusly get 150 free beakers.

If the number of techs you can research is even, then you would get the arithmetic mean between the two techs in the middle. Say you have 200-300-400-600; the median value would be (300+400)/2 = 350 and you'd thusly get 175 free beakers.

Now, there are two factors that change this 50% value. The Porcelain Tower wonder and the rationalism opener. Both increase it by 50% (50% of 50%, so actually 25%) up to 100% of the median, so you'd effectively get a free tech.

If you have already researched a technology part-a-way, the overflow (or excess) beakers do not go to waste; they go to a random tech. HOWEVER, if you queue up some techs in the tech tree (ex: Gunpowder->Metallurgy->Gunpowder) the excess beakers would go to the next tech. It is therefore often wise to queue up multiple techs when you know a RA is going to finish.

Hope that helps

 

[Cenan]

It's actually "mean" value, not median.

The civilopedia text states: "...after 20 turns you gain research equal to half of the average cost of the techs available to you".

So, if you had techs costing 200, 300 and 600:
((200+300+600)/3)/2 = (1100/3)/2 = 366.67/2 = 183.33

Aside from that, everything else eazyseeker said is true.

 

[snarzberry]

It's actually "mean" value, not median.

The civilopedia text states: "...after 20 turns you gain research equal to half of the average cost of the techs available to you".

So, if you had techs costing 200, 300 and 600:
((200+300+600)/3)/2 = (1100/3)/2 = 366.67/2 = 183.33

Aside from that, everything else eazyseeker said is true.

The civilopedia entry is clumsily worded, but it does actually work off the median value, not the mean.

 

[Trik]

Thx thats clears up a lot of confusion i had.

 

[joncnunn]

I'm starting to like the new RA system. Just create a queue order of what order you want to discover the techs in.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

System is good, but OP for late game.

 

[Buccaneer]

System is good, but OP for late game.

I agree, I had a late tech (Mass Media, I think) go from 17 turns down to 3. But I think that's still better than getting a free tech (in the next era, for example) due to some micromanaged blocking schemes.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I agree, I had a late tech (Mass Media, I think) go from 17 turns down to 3. But I think that's still better than getting a free tech (in the next era, for example) due to some micromanaged blocking schemes.

The thing is, it is Still a free tech, just it can't be your most expensive tech available.

 

[Martin Alvito]

The thing is, it is Still a free tech, just it can't be your most expensive tech available.

Sure, but late in the game you can start popping two and three techs from an RA if you beeline up to Electricity and juggle the tree properly. And it can be your most expensive tech available if you have enough of them open.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's a slight nerf to the RA that takes away some, but not all, of the micromanagement.

These "free" tech claims are beyond silly. Sign me up for those, in my games I usually have to pay for RA.

As a rule of thumb just clear out any ultra-cheap techs you still have lying around to-be-researched.

Personally I feel that tech trades and RA shouldn't be on by default in any civ game; compared to other in-game methods of multiplying beakers they're both utterly overwhelming and decidedly more chance-based than other aspects of empire management. Big nono on that crap but since they're on try to milk them best you can.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It's a slight nerf to the RA that takes away some, but not all, of the micromanagement.

These "free" tech claims are beyond silly. Sign me up for those, in my games I usually have to pay for RA.

As a rule of thumb just clear out any ultra-cheap techs you still have lying around to-be-researched.

Personally I feel that tech trades and RA shouldn't be on by default in any civ game; compared to other in-game methods of multiplying beakers they're both utterly overwhelming and decidedly more chance-based than other aspects of empire management. Big nono on that crap but since they're on try to milk them best you can.

Ideally, they are diplomatic management rather than empire management. However, the fact that they are scaled to tech cost, and the rapidly increasing tech costs in the later game makes them overpowered.

 

[Dregor]

Don't forget that the other end of the deal is benefiting as well. If you're trailing in tech you probably want to avoid making a deal with the tech leader most of the time. Sure, another AI will make it, but that doesn't mean you have to be the enabler!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ideally, they are diplomatic management rather than empire management. However, the fact that they are scaled to tech cost, and the rapidly increasing tech costs in the later game makes them overpowered.

:/

They were ALWAYS scaled to tech costs. And by always I mean both tech trades AND RA. They are also generally worth a ridiculous amount of beakers beyond their gold cost. Even now, that is only more so with wonders and policies that boost them to be worth 100% (or more!) of median tech cost.

But think about it. You can pay 100's and 100's of gold for a research multiplier of 50% in one city, or you can get get effectively 50% research multiplier in all cities (or 100%, or more) for LESS GOLD. Yes, it's a 1 time use, but it would take a single research multiplier anywhere from 50 to 100 turns to never to catch the fast returns, and fast returns are worth more! Now, on TOP of THAT, you can get 2 of these research deals for as much or less than buying a research improvement? Really?

Tech trades and RA have both been brokenly strong since their inception. Even more so because you can't even get them reliably depending on which neighbors you have (or even if you have any), making a weak starting position even weaker. Firaxis never thought these mechanics through or they wouldn't be default options; they actually REMOVE strategy from the game! Derp tech trade! Derp sign every RA possible! Derp! With them off one might actually have to think slightly about where to allocate that gold.

 

[DaveMcW]

Don't forget that the other end of the deal is benefiting as well. If you're trailing in tech you probably want to avoid making a deal with the tech leader most of the time. Sure, another AI will make it, but that doesn't mean you have to be the enabler!

That's terrible logic. Make an RA with two tech leaders, and you'll catch up while they fall behind! Even better, make an RA with every AI.

 

[Tabarnak]

That's terrible logic. Make an RA with two tech leaders, and you'll catch up while they fall behind! Even better, make an RA with every AI.

Yep. Also, strongest civs have almost always enough cash anytime. You have higher chances to not pay an ''era'' penalty. And for sure, you have PT and rationalism opened...you get a full RA while they only get a part of it.

 

[baldfalk]

since they're inception.

I think the question that really should be asked is, -ARE- they really inception? I have my doubts.

 

[MadDjinn]

I just hate the fact that RAs refuse to give you more than two techs at a time. It really messes up the RA timing if you can't be given that third one. (or more)

No really. I've been hit with this where the 3rd tech is more than 100 beakers over the required number. And not with cheap techs either.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I just hate the fact that RAs refuse to give you more than two techs at a time. It really messes up the RA timing if you can't be given that third one. (or more)

No really. I've been hit with this where the 3rd tech is more than 100 beakers over the required number. And not with cheap techs either.

Yeah, that's an irritating bug. All you can really do is plan around it. I try to sign the front end RAs in the first wave a few turns early (which is possible if you're using the first wave to clear the Chemistry/Econ level techs, then the later Renaissance techs and finally an Industrial tech) in order to minimize this problem.

 

[eazyseeker]

Yeah, that's an irritating bug. All you can really do is plan around it. I try to sign the front end RAs in the first wave a few turns early (which is possible if you're using the first wave to clear the Chemistry/Econ level techs, then the later Renaissance techs and finally an Industrial tech) in order to minimize this problem.

Wait, what?

RAs CANNOT give you more than the 2nd queued tech? I could've sworn I've lost some beakers sometimes, but only now did I discover this :O