The Next NES by EQandCivfanatic
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
- Start date
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
If you start Imperial Glory, I'll still be happy. No tech tree makes me happy, and I like the feelings.
Guess what nation I'm gonna be.
(Denmark, reserved, if possible.)
Now I'm equally in for Warcraft NES and Imperial Glory. I would suggest the Warcraft one though, since we need one of those eventually.
Warman17's was good while it lasted, but not sufficient.
Guess what nation I'm gonna be.
(Denmark, reserved, if possible.)
Now I'm equally in for Warcraft NES and Imperial Glory. I would suggest the Warcraft one though, since we need one of those eventually.
Warman17's was good while it lasted, but not sufficient.
One of the main reason for the tech tree switch is because I've just recently heard some upsetting (for me anyways, we all like it when people like the things we do) things about ABNW and feelings toward it outside of those currently in that NES. While I don't know how much of what I've heard is true, I feel that the complaints about the tech tree do have some validity, and frankly, up until now I've been struggling to find a replacement that I could be satisfied with. I think the Imperial Glory is a suitable compromise, and I'm considering incorporating it into the current ABNW, once I see how it actually stands up as a ruleset.
Although I want ABNW to go to its climax, I'm quite interested in Imperial Glory as I know nothing about Warcraft.
Foolhardy or not its high time I play a power with some real muscle. France is my first choice if Justo decides against it, if not I'll take Austria.
@EQ I like the idea for the tech tree too. It sounds quite similar to the one I'm using in my NES though I do have a few specific techs (Largely in regard to navies, because the naval arms race was a big deal at the time) and more (though still broad) categories.
Foolhardy or not its high time I play a power with some real muscle. France is my first choice if Justo decides against it, if not I'll take Austria.
@EQ I like the idea for the tech tree too. It sounds quite similar to the one I'm using in my NES though I do have a few specific techs (Largely in regard to navies, because the naval arms race was a big deal at the time) and more (though still broad) categories.
At the moment I'm trying to find flyinchicken's map that he recently made, I can't find a blank one on my computer, once i find it, I can make up a tentative map for ya'll to view (though we'll start with European powers only on the map.
human-slaughter
brand new year
I would much rather see your version of Warcraft come around. If so I would want to take back the nation I played in Warman's (Kul Tiras)
@EQ I also have a large dislike for the current tech tree in ABNW. In OTL even nations that were backwards in some ways were comparable technologically to the Western Powers. (SU, Japan) were able to maintain relative parity in tank designs and aircraft designs. Although some techs should remain secret in some form. (Nuclear and Rocket technologies for example and other highly specialized fields)
I think nuclear and rocket techs will be a way off in this NES but things such ship design were definitely kept secret.
@EQ: Would I be right in assuming that when you say "a variety of factors" you are taking the above into account as well as considering the skill levels and cost of certain techs for some nations and how that could make them lag in development?
My main problem has ALWAYS been the creation of alliance to maintain tech parity. I've been struggling against massive and unrealistic alliance blocs for a while, and I hope this will lessen that issue.
I'll admit it has always bothered me how fairly poor, backward countries can get say advanced computing technologies simply by contributing small amounts to a tech fund. As I'm sure you've realized, the way nations seek to expand their alliances simply to get more money for techs is horribly unrealistic (though its probably helped me personally to an extent).
Yes, i have realized that for a long time, but I've felt that there wasn't really a better way. My opinion has always been that it's better to know specifically what you're going for, plus I've thought that it allows for alternative routes to take place in reseach (i.e. what's been going on with zeppelins/battleships in ABNW)
I've also disliked this and massed trading of technology. However if one doesn't do it then one falls behind.
The other options imo would be tech osmozis. Making techs cheaper as they are researched. Things like Theories of Aeronautics and Theories of Piston flight should be pretty much worldwide now considering there was the event in Louisiana which showcased piston powered aircraft to the world.
That's a good point. Since ya'll are here and talking, what if we did in fact introduce these rules into ABNW as it stands? What issues do you see and how would I go about fixing them?
To me it seems that there are those who have spent considerable funds into multiple sources, and then others who have a lot of EP and not much to do with it. Thoughts?
To me it seems that there are those who have spent considerable funds into multiple sources, and then others who have a lot of EP and not much to do with it. Thoughts?
It would be very difficult to do at this stage. Though I think it could be done. I wouldn't do the exact same thing you're doing with the Imperial Glory NES. I'd keep the alliance/country specific units and perhaps just change every specialization to a category for investment though the discounts for some should remain.
Unique units have to stay, that's nonnegotiablle for me. I do have some changes for the twentieth century I was going to introduce in Imperial Glory. Namely, specific research projects (make me a bigger, badder tank among more secretive projects), and so forth.
All right I'm talking online with Jason about it at this moment:
yosemitehker (2:58:05 AM): Germany is contributing 30ep a turn into air tech
yosemitehker (2:58:15 AM): and france is contributing 29
yosemitehker (2:58:27 AM): does this mean Germany will always be the first to discover a new tech?
EQandCivfanatic (2:58:36 AM): theoretically, yes
EQandCivfanatic (2:58:52 AM): though France will eventually get one first, just not as frequenttly as germany
EQandCivfanatic (2:58:57 AM): i've thought it out though
yosemitehker (2:59:27 AM): so if you integrate it into ABNW
EQandCivfanatic (2:59:32 AM): basically, to create new designs for vehicles: all players have to say is, make me a new tank based on the technical level we have
yosemitehker (2:59:42 AM): ohh
EQandCivfanatic (2:59:52 AM): they'll get their tank, and it'll differ from nation to nation
yosemitehker (3:00:18 AM): maybe pay a set cost to invent a tank, to pay for the prototypes and designers, to cut down on someone wanting a new tank every turn
EQandCivfanatic (3:00:26 AM): hrm
EQandCivfanatic (3:00:29 AM): a good point
EQandCivfanatic (3:00:33 AM): i like that
yosemitehker (2:58:05 AM): Germany is contributing 30ep a turn into air tech
yosemitehker (2:58:15 AM): and france is contributing 29
yosemitehker (2:58:27 AM): does this mean Germany will always be the first to discover a new tech?
EQandCivfanatic (2:58:36 AM): theoretically, yes
EQandCivfanatic (2:58:52 AM): though France will eventually get one first, just not as frequenttly as germany
EQandCivfanatic (2:58:57 AM): i've thought it out though
yosemitehker (2:59:27 AM): so if you integrate it into ABNW
EQandCivfanatic (2:59:32 AM): basically, to create new designs for vehicles: all players have to say is, make me a new tank based on the technical level we have
yosemitehker (2:59:42 AM): ohh
EQandCivfanatic (2:59:52 AM): they'll get their tank, and it'll differ from nation to nation
yosemitehker (3:00:18 AM): maybe pay a set cost to invent a tank, to pay for the prototypes and designers, to cut down on someone wanting a new tank every turn
EQandCivfanatic (3:00:26 AM): hrm
EQandCivfanatic (3:00:29 AM): a good point
EQandCivfanatic (3:00:33 AM): i like that
Much like the old NES you had where America was a bunch of countries (the one with Socialist states of America based out of the Midwest). I liked that. I was Colombia. I liked my Sasquatch Heavy Bombers.
The only problem I see with this is that couldn't there theoretically be 100 tanks floating around that are basically the same? You should make the initial investment, as Jason suggested, quite expensive that way the smaller nations are forced to buy from the larger nations or use outdated models.
I agree, an investment must be required for new designs.
Also I can't say I've ever seen backward engineering or industrial espionage actually done in any of your NESes though in truth copy-cat versions of technologies are quite prevalent such as the dozens of different rip-off AK-47s and T-80s. Would there be any way to logically include this without losing playability/fairness?
I believe that nations that invest into technology should gain either higher military quality or better designs.
Tech research could be automated as you have suggested in this ruleset with limited player intervention possible. Certain nations should be able to maintain a specialization. These nations would be the major powers only. Nations with specialization would gain technology in that field slightly earlier than other nations.
A very rough example would be every 5-10 years a new tank design is created(not necessarily by all nations at once. Players can then invest towards tank designs. A player who invests 1 EP gets a new tank that is generally better than the previous type of tank but then another player may invest 10 EP into a tank design creating a much better tank overall.(limits would need to be placed on this) Over the course of the 10 or so years players could continue investment into tank designs so over this 10 years a player may develop 3 tank designs each design being different in cost, speed, firepower etc(Obviously each new generation would also be superior than the last just simply because of better experience with the technology). Then the next tank technology pops changing tank design again.(You as the mod could also roll a dice on this to determine if the tank design is an absolute failure forcing the player to start from scratch or if it is better than dreamed etc)
Otherwise I've always thought it would be awesome if certain countries could specialize the type of tank or aircraft they have. For example an emphasis on a high quality tank but in turn is difficult to produce so for example 1 EP would only provide 1 Brigade of this tank (OTL Germany in WW2). While another country may want to focus on massed easily buildable tanks where 1 EP buys 2 Brigades (OTL USA in WW2). Obviously this could then be branched out into Aerial development as well.
The majority of nations on the other hand might only be able to produce a generic Tank II Brigade. With no obvious advantages or disadvantages. Their performance would be entirely related to army quality.
The main problem would be in storing the information on the front page but basically you could have Taylor Tanks costing 1 EP for 2 Brigades and Hotchkiss Tanks costing 1 EP for 1 Brigade under a separate area as an example.
This way is interesting because it will allow for more player customization in this although it may be to complicated. It will allow certain nations to become arms traders so to speak. Selling their higher quality tanks to minor powers even allowing friendly nations to build this equipment although this could become quite complicated over time.
Tech research could be automated as you have suggested in this ruleset with limited player intervention possible. Certain nations should be able to maintain a specialization. These nations would be the major powers only. Nations with specialization would gain technology in that field slightly earlier than other nations.
A very rough example would be every 5-10 years a new tank design is created(not necessarily by all nations at once. Players can then invest towards tank designs. A player who invests 1 EP gets a new tank that is generally better than the previous type of tank but then another player may invest 10 EP into a tank design creating a much better tank overall.(limits would need to be placed on this) Over the course of the 10 or so years players could continue investment into tank designs so over this 10 years a player may develop 3 tank designs each design being different in cost, speed, firepower etc(Obviously each new generation would also be superior than the last just simply because of better experience with the technology). Then the next tank technology pops changing tank design again.(You as the mod could also roll a dice on this to determine if the tank design is an absolute failure forcing the player to start from scratch or if it is better than dreamed etc)
Otherwise I've always thought it would be awesome if certain countries could specialize the type of tank or aircraft they have. For example an emphasis on a high quality tank but in turn is difficult to produce so for example 1 EP would only provide 1 Brigade of this tank (OTL Germany in WW2). While another country may want to focus on massed easily buildable tanks where 1 EP buys 2 Brigades (OTL USA in WW2). Obviously this could then be branched out into Aerial development as well.
The majority of nations on the other hand might only be able to produce a generic Tank II Brigade. With no obvious advantages or disadvantages. Their performance would be entirely related to army quality.
The main problem would be in storing the information on the front page but basically you could have Taylor Tanks costing 1 EP for 2 Brigades and Hotchkiss Tanks costing 1 EP for 1 Brigade under a separate area as an example.
This way is interesting because it will allow for more player customization in this although it may be to complicated. It will allow certain nations to become arms traders so to speak. Selling their higher quality tanks to minor powers even allowing friendly nations to build this equipment although this could become quite complicated over time.
