The Official Perfection KOs Creationism Thread!

[The Last Conformist]

Is that map showing a land bridge across the Wallace Line?

 

[Perfection]

All right I give up. You guys know more than I do. I see I could argue against some of this for some time but those would not be enough to be worth it. So I guess I'll come back when I know a little more. Thanks for your time.

We'll be waiting

Hahaha yeah I know I find it funny they believe the Bible when it drives there idea, and not when it doesn't. They say that we got the ten commandments from aliens ( ), I saw it on the history channel.

It constantly amazes me the crap that they try to pass off as history sometimes.

1. Almost every culture on the planet has some sort of flood myth.

1. My mind is screaming sampling error. Can you tell me the methodology you used (or referenced to) when you refer to almost every culture?
2. What indicates the consitancy of them? Just having to do with a flood isn't nearly enough!
3. Why must they indicate that it was a flood that covered the whole earth?
4. Could it be that a single myth got spread to many cultures?

2. Arqeological evidence exists around the world to support the theory that the sea-levels were once lower.

So? That doesn't show there was once a world covering flood, and it's thoroughly consistant with evolution.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Is that map showing a land bridge across the Wallace Line?

Its a map showing arqeological evidence that the sea levels used to be alot lower than they are now. Ruins of an ancient civilization which was far more advanced(At least Bronze Age level) than the neolithic people of that time were found underwater there.

The Ancient Egypts, Sumerians, many Polynesian tribes, Azteks, Greeks, Australian Aborignees, Chinese, Norse, Celtic and Native Americans all have flood stories.

The Flood, according to biblical chronology, occurred approximately 4,500 years ago. Most of the world’s cultures have legends of events which are remarkably similar to the Flood account recorded in Genesis. These stories have a common thread, conforming to local conditions: a warning is given by God (or gods) of a coming flood to punish wickedness; the person warned is instructed to build a vessel of safety for himself, his family, and the other living creatures; the world is destroyed by water; the occupants of the vessel repopulate the earth. Many other specific themes from Genesis (sending out birds, landing on a mountain, the rainbow, post-Flood sacrifice) are often present too.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Its a map showing arqeological evidence that the sea levels used to be alot lower than they are now.

That much is obvious. The question is, does it show a land connection across the Wallace Line. Or more generically, does it show Astralia/New Guinea as connected with mainland Asia.

If yes, it's in conflict with standard explanations of species distributions in that part of the world, as well as what I've read of the geology of the place.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Well, the map makes alot of sense, for it explains the existence of the Trichgaster species of Labyrinth fish(Gouramis), existing on the many islands of Indonesia(Which never connected to the mainland if the map is incorrect). These same species and related species(The Cosa) also live in Thailand and India respectively.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Which islands? Many - incl Sumatra, Java, and Borneo - were connected to the mainland in the standard account.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Well, the map makes alot of sense, for it explains the existence of the Trichgaster species of Labyrinth fish(Gouramis), existing on the many islands of Indonesia(Which never connected to the mainland if the map is incorrect). These same species and related species(The Cosa) also live in Thailand and India respectively.

And the date on such a land bridge is? Whose time line is it most approprate to use?

 

[The Last Conformist]

And the date on such a land bridge is?

It'll have existed for most of the last ice age, 120k-10k years ago.

The question is, how much was connected. It's usually held that there were no connections across the Wallace Line, and that this, simply enough, is the reason for the Wallace Line.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The smaller, isolated islands.

 

[The Last Conformist]

The smaller, isolated islands.

Do you have a reference?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Not currently, but I could get one if you so wish

 

[The Last Conformist]

Would be interesting.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The Spice Islands are a good example. They were formed via Volcanism.

 

[Perfection]

Its a map showing arqeological evidence that the sea levels used to be alot lower than they are now.

and that has to do with genesis how?

Ruins of an ancient civilization which was far more advanced(At least Bronze Age level) than the neolithic people of that time were found underwater there.

1. What ruins?
2. How does this support the idea of a global flood

The Ancient Egypts, Sumerians, many Polynesian tribes, Azteks, Greeks, Australian Aborignees, Chinese, Norse, Celtic and Native Americans all have flood stories.

1. What about the Maya, Bantu, Khosian, Japanese, the other Polynesians, other Native Americans (I find it funny you erronously lump them all as one, then cite aztecs), all them African tribes, the inuit, indians, Aborignal Tasmanians? Listing may sound impressive, but it's no substute for an in-depth statistical study.
2. Most of those are interconnected, so it's pretty easy to spread the tale
3. Floods are commonplace, stories may be too

The Flood, according to biblical chronology, occurred approximately 4,500 years ago. Most of the world’s cultures have legends of events which are remarkably similar to the Flood account recorded in Genesis. These stories have a common thread, conforming to local conditions: a warning is given by God (or gods) of a coming flood to punish wickedness; the person warned is instructed to build a vessel of safety for himself, his family, and the other living creatures; the world is destroyed by water; the occupants of the vessel repopulate the earth. Many other specific themes from Genesis (sending out birds, landing on a mountain, the rainbow, post-Flood sacrifice) are often present too.

So where's each account tabulated for common threads and plot structure to see if there really is a correlation or is this just based on a little bit of anecdotal evidence?

Well, the map makes alot of sense, for it explains the existence of the Trichgaster species of Labyrinth fish(Gouramis), existing on the many islands of Indonesia

And the evolutionary model does not? Explain?

(Which never connected to the mainland if the map is incorrect).

That logic was so absurd I just about crapped myself (wait, a second, I DID!!!!), That's like saying well, "if the map is incorrect Canada must south of the United States", while the map may be right about Canada being North of the United States, it's still can be wrong when it says Toledo is the capital of Idaho!

These same species and related species(The Cosa) also live in Thailand and India respectively.

And this has to do with the discussion how?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

A species of fish lives in two places, One on the mainland, the other on an island that was never in contact with the mainland unless the map is correct. It has to do with the Genesis flood in that the map claims that the water levels were once higher. A global flood is an excellilent way of raising global water levels.

PS: I'm curious as to why you picked the Pentagon as your avatar...hehe

 

[Sims2789]

It constantly amazes me the crap that they try to pass off as history sometimes.

Lol! Like their new Conspiracies series. Or that compulsive liar they interviewed about JFK's murder. She claimed that she and the murderer were in love and were building some weapon for Washington to use against the Soviets in their house. And she was the only person interviewed in the whole episode. That's right, no one to opposed her "history." They also glorify the Alamo and put a nationalistic spin on some thing. But sometimes it is very good.

 

[Plotinus]

A species of fish lives in two places, One on the mainland, the other on an island that was never in contact with the mainland unless the map is correct. It has to do with the Genesis flood in that the map claims that the water levels were once higher. A global flood is an excellilent way of raising global water levels.

Just a couple of responses to that argument:

(1) I think you're suggesting that a massive flood raised sea levels, allowing the fish to travel between what would later be islands cut off from each other. But labyrinth fish (if memory serves) are freshwater fish. They could hardly swim in the sea. Even if the flood had diluted the seawater, it would still be brackish and kill them.

(2) Fish *can* travel from one landlocked body of water to another. For example, eggs can be carried by birds. Sounds unlikely but it does happen, and I've seen it myself. I built a pond many years ago which I did *not* put fish in because I wanted it to be used by amphibians (and fish eat tadpoles). Imagine my annoyance when, within months, goldfish appeared in it! A whole tribe of wild goldfish which proceeded to obey the biblical injunction to be fruitful and multiply. Eventually I had to pump all the water out of the pond and retrieve the fish manually. It was the only way. Now, no-one dumped those fish in the pond, which was in the depths of the back garden - they evidently arrived through a natural means. They were, moreover, rather feral fish, many of which had reverted to the Crucian Carp form (as goldfish populations will do when left to their own devices). As I say, it sounds unlikely, but it certainly happens, whatever the precise mechanism may be.

 

[The Last Conformist]

(3) Even if there existed a landbridge between this island (please say which!), it does not follow that the other connections shown on that map existed.

 

[carlosMM]

(3) Even if there existed a landbridge between this island (please say which!), it does not follow that the other connections shown on that map existed.

most did exist, for a short time.

What people like SoG tend to NOT understand is that this happened a long time before their 'creation' of earth according to a literal reading of the bible.
They just pick up odd bits and pieces of scientific reseach that seemingly can fit their hypotheses, and conveniently leave out all the bits and pieces (like dates on maps) that do not fit in. They believe science claims terrestrial (non-avian) dinosaurs and man encountered each other on earth (a childishly simplification of earths history that is totally wrong), then absed on thsi they construct theories.
Well, idle talk - their basic claim is simply untrue.


The same is true here: Yes, sea levels have been lower than they are today. but, actually, this happened a LOT of times. Sadly for our less critical thinkers, it did NOT happen in biblical times. Oops! So much for their theories.

And, btw, how to fit in 'more advanced than neolithic' civs (read: Atlantis) with a literal interpretation of the bible is beyond me - it requires such utter disregard of logic and such an enormous incomprehension of 'time' that I would deem a chimp to smart to utter such nonsense!

 

[The Last Conformist]

most did exist, for a short time.

I know most of them existed. But that a conclusion is (largely) correct does not imply that the reasoning leading to it is valid, nor that the flaws ins said reasoning shouldn't be pointed out.

What caught my attention wrt SoG's map is that it shows the Lesser Sundas connected to the Asian mainland, and, apparently, also to Australia/New Guinea. Given the depth of some of the water channels involved, this would require sea levels falling much more than is usually assumed (I'm not gonna even try to figure out how that ties in with a global flood), and it would sink the standard explanation for the Wallace Line. I was hoping to find some further motivation or explanation for these oddities, as well as pointing out the flaws in SoG's argumentation.