AfterShafter
Deity
Pro is a good trait. I don't mind playing Pro/something other nice with a bad UU.
OooohWe're getting tense?
That, my good man, is a rubbish argument. Wodan's argument is still viable. No matter that players move at the same time, the one player still have to wait for the other to move. You aren't moing your musketman again, you're moving dozens of different units once.
Diamond, you're misunderstanding my argument. I'm not saying his argument isn't viable - in fact, I think he's made an excellent point which is probably the defining difference between RTS and TBS. What my point was from the beginning was that there are meaningful ways to compare them. With that in mind, the argument you're calling "rubbish" is stating that, despite this clear difference (IE - wait for the other player between turns), there are large segments of a TBS (Civ, in this case) which play very much like a real time game. My point has been, and is, that RTS and TBS are very often different faces of the same beast.
Let's face it - in a multiplayer game of Civ with simultaneous moves on, for the duration of a turn, you're moving and acting very much like you would in an RTS. In spite of this, there is the clear difference that the turn end marks the point everyone waits for, so Wodan's point is an excellent one. With that in mind, there are large segments of Civ which move like an RTS.
If it is the case that within the turn, Civ does have such notable similarities to an RTS that two players can essentially operate in real time against each other within their turn, exactly how can one make the case that there are no meaningful grounds for comparison?
Consider it. Apart from the turn marker which everyone waits for, the way the turns play out is very much like a slice of time taken from an RTS. TBS seems to control pacing more than anything else - IE, one player who is quicker can't drastically outpace another player. Am I dead wrong, and totally missing that a time slice from an RTS is very similar to a turn in a TBS? If so, can someone explain the difference, because I really am missing it. The unit actions are done in "turns" in RTS's, the basic gather resources/construct model is virtually the same, units have similar action types, the objectives are often very similar, the way the units disperse and perform their duties bear notable similarities, the overall objectives are often very similar, and very often the rulesets which inspire TBS's and RTS's a the same. What's more, Bioware games are an excellent example of the change between real time strategy and turn based strategy being made (on a small scale - or large scale in NWN mods!) simply by inputting a pause function to function as turn ends.
I don't know. I see so many broad points of contact, and the crossover being made so easily in some cases, that I just don't get how everyone is so adamant on "there are no meaningful points of contact between these two genres."
