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The OOS Issues that Plague This Game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Calbrenar, Apr 1, 2008.

  1. wayeward

    wayeward Chieftain

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    Well We have played several games with "living world" enabled and haven't had any game killing OOS issues. The only close call was after about 400 turns I went to war with Amelanchier and took his holy city of the Leaves (named Bruti) and the next turn it would go OOS. We tried more than 4 reloads, but nothing worked. Everytime i took the city there would be a problem.

    So I took other cities and avoided Bruti for some time, no problems thereafter, even after I took Bruti some turns later. Very strange, like Kael has mentioned before, OOS issues could be caused by a series of certain events happening at the same time, and that is very hard to track down. But the taking of cities seems to be an issue for many OOS problems of late. If anyone else has noticed this please let us know.
     
  2. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Cool!
    What settings? Latest patch?
     
  3. wayeward

    wayeward Chieftain

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    Wildlands enabled
    Living World enabled
    Patch E
    (nothing else was disabled)

    NOTE: We did not disable anything other than tech trading, but put it on "living world" to test out the events and whether they were causing any trouble. Like I said, we never had any game killing OOS issues. The game went over 500 turns.

    (1) That being said, we are in the midst of another game and once again we have had an OOS caused by taking a city, about 400 turns into the game.

    (2) Reloads and retaking the city cause the same issue the next turn, I even tried waiting a few turns before taking the city the second time and it happened again in the same fashion.

    (3) It should also be noted that this problem of taken cities causing OOS seem to occur with different cities each time.

    (5) To recap, the cities that have caused this problem upon the following turn AFTER taking the city from an AI civ (in three different games 300+ turns in) are as follows:

    1. Gaudium (perpentach)
    2. Bruti (Holy city of Leaves at that time, Amelanchier)
    3. Kwythellar (Capital city of Cardith Lorda)

    IN ADDITION:
    4. Conquering of Unknown city OOS error (reported by Sto on Apr 13,
    2008,12:07 PM [see above post])

    (6) It should be noted that this particular problem has been avoided by NOT taking the city in question, but by taking other cities from the CIV AI before turning to that particular city again for conquest. Hopefully this can continue to fix this particular issue.
     
  4. Alsark

    Alsark Noble

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    Are there issues associated with Sabiethal of the Bannor? I'm in an online game with two friends and OOS issues have been regularly coming up after the summoning of Hyborem. Sabiethal has not met Hyborem, but the OOS number seems to be saying that the Sabiethal player is the cause of the OOS issues. Generally reloading the game hasn't had much of an effect on OOS (we'll get them again like a turn later). Not sure if this has to do with anything, but the Sabiethal player uses and founded The Order and is pretty war-like.

    It's large world, lock modified assets, continents. Not much else as far as options go. This is on patch 'e'.
     
  5. Koolhan

    Koolhan Chieftain

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    Location:
    U.S., Illinois
    We just had an OOS in a game last night that I think is caused by one of the races adopting Undercouncil. My brother and I are playing on a mid-size map with 6 extra AI plus us, so 8 total. One is dead at the time of the OOS so 7 total races now. The map is Big and Small or Continents I forget which. Anyways, we tried reloading a few times, reverting back to autosaves etc., but every time they change their civic to Undercouncil it goes OOS. I was wondering if the Undercouncil is something that has caused MP problems in the past and if we could try saving it at the point of OOS and reloading to match up our data? It's about mid-way through the game and a real downer. :( We've been able to dodge problems by reverting back to autosaves before, but this OOS always triggers, and it always seems to be in connection with Undercouncil, since there weren't any other noteworthy events that happened on our second run-through.

    Sorry about not being too technical, I just found this thread while searching and that's the information that pops into my head, will post more if we fix it or when I get the raw data.

    BTW, kudos for the awesome mod, been following it since the inception(almost), and I love the singleplayer of course, just wish the MP side of BTS/Civ4 were more stable so we could all enjoy this mod to its fullest potential.
     
  6. Mylon

    Mylon Amateur Game Designer

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    I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but the most likely cause of the OOS errors (coming from a fellow modder) is using the random number generator: Every random number generator call in the entire game _must_ use sorenrand(), if there are any other functions that do not call upon this (such as using the standard C++ random library), then that will cause OOS errors. I would encourage one of the fans here with a bit of C++ experience check the source code for any instances.

    In my own experience, I got a popup from the c++ function "Dogpile" when my friend summoned the angels and the OOS error happened. We had another such error shortly afterwards, though nothing seemed to be the apparent cause.

    All using 31e.
     
  7. Kael

    Kael Deity

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    Great information, there shouldnt be any case where we use a radnom number other than through sorenrnd. Any idea what the python error was?
     
  8. Mylon

    Mylon Amateur Game Designer

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    No, I didn't get any python exception errors. I found it rather odd that it mentioned a c++ error. I did not write down the line number where the error occured, but it should be fairly easy to test using two computers.
     
  9. MrPopov

    MrPopov King

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    has anyone had any experience with FFH2 pitboss games? Are OOS issues more/less prevelant? Seems that in a pitboss game it should function more as a server/client environment.
     
  10. wayeward

    wayeward Chieftain

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    UPDATE

    Well we have played several games with 5+ human players and the only real problems we have had is with anyone who was playing with Xp, they would always go out of sync while other comps would not. It happened about 4-5 times in the 6 games we have tried. Usually it broke the game, and the only way we could continue was if the Xp player dropped out completely.
     
  11. Kael

    Kael Deity

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    Very interesting. There must be some base Vista/XP differences that the Sync system is having problems with.
     
  12. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    XP with XP has no sync problems in fact.
     
  13. kioras

    kioras Daemon Quellor

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    me and my brother in law always go out of sync after 90-130ish turns since the BTS FFH2.

    ALWAYS around that time, and then clearing the cach only buys us 5-10 more turns before going OOS again.

    only seems to happen because he is running Vista 64, and i am running XP 32 or 64
     
  14. wayeward

    wayeward Chieftain

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    I know this thread has been dead for a while but I have to say that I think the real reason is most of the OOS problems have been eliminated---that being said, the only one that cannot be avoided anymore is the Xp/Vista compatibility issue.

    My advice, if you really want to play this game on multiplayer do not bother trying if any of you have different operating systems (xp/vista). This game is so fantastic its worth the few hours it takes to wipe your HD and acquire VISTA or revert to Xp, or perhaps installing both OS. Whatever you have to do...

    We will continue to post here if any other majot problems arise concerning OOS issues. But tHanks to the FFH team for tolerating and helping us out, and for making such a great mod for us all.

    Cheers
     
  15. Xuenay

    Xuenay Prince

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    We've played XP with XP and still had crippling OOS issues.
     
  16. wayeward

    wayeward Chieftain

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    Were they issues that broke the game entirely? or could the game be recovered? It is the issues that break a game entirely that are the real problem. Most can be recovered with a reload or rejoin or restart of the game, among other options.
     
  17. Deamon

    Deamon Chieftain

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    Actually, I've been running quite a few games with mixed OS's and that in it self hasn't caused any issues. The creation map however is instant death for any and every mp game since 0.32 patch d.. (instant OOS on creation no matter civ, map changing after reload and so forth)
     
  18. Xuenay

    Xuenay Prince

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    Pretty much. A reload would fix the OOS, but it would either pop up again the next turn, or within only a few.
     
  19. wayeward

    wayeward Chieftain

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    Damn. So far as I can remember you are the only one to really report this problem as critical for xp to xp users. Has anybody else suffered this with xp to xp games?

    All I know is that when all users are on VISTA we have few to no OOS issues at all. And any that do occur are easily fixed.

    In that case, maybe just try reinstalling FFH on both computers, if you haven't already...
     
  20. Jean Elcard

    Jean Elcard The Flavournator

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    A wild guess: Maybe the OOS have something to do with the differences between single- and multi-core systems? AMD provides a fix for some time synchronizing problems, which may occur under XP, if you are using a multi-core CPU. Here is the description. Sounds suspicious to me:

     

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