Hickman888
Prince
As the Phoenician settlers set out to colonize the western Mediterranean, one of those colonies, Carthage, will in time grow to become a mighty empire. Please use this thread for all discussion about the Phoenicians and their mighty empire, beit strategies, savegames, suggestions, etc. Here are my suggestions after completing several games with them!
UHV1: Traders in Purple: Control 5 Dye resources and have 15 trade routes by 300 BC
I really like this new goal for 1.18, as it emphasizes settling many colonies, running merchant trade, and working sea resources. All very thematic for Phoenicia. However, I do think it can be made more difficult. Spawning in on Turn 70, Phoenicia has until Turn 140 to complete this goal. I think expanding this goal to 20 trade routes, 5 harvest boats, and 5 fishing boats would be appropriate, and force the player to settle more colonies that don't just provide access to Dye or through the African capes, as is currently the case. The unique power of the Phoenicians allows them to be super flexible when it comes to training a military, and they can therefore spend more of their early game expanding and settling, and forego training a sizable military until later on.
UHV2: Build a Palace and the Great Cothon in Carthage by 400 BC and control Italy and Iberia by 150 BC
As I mentioned in the General Thread, my only complaint with the goal is that the control goal is by, when I think it should be in. As it is currently possible to control Italy and Iberia before the Romans even spawn.
Greece has a tendency of sniping the Great Cothon. Maybe we can move the Great Cothon to Navigation, to decrease the likelihood of this happening? And move the Lighthouse back to Shipbuilding, to prevent Navigation from being too overloaded with content.
Also, I recommend that Phoenicia should have historical tiles over all of Sicily, rather than just on the wheat resource, as Messana seems to be the "canon" Sicily spot, allowing ships to sail by and not being located on a resource.
I think there was a post recently where Greek culture from Sicily had spread to Carthage's location, and prevented it from being settled by the AI. I think the tile of Carthage should be included in the "Rise of the Phoenicians" area, to purge any foreign culture, allowing it to be settled by Phoenicia. (Why does the AI like settling Oyat before Carthage?)
On the topic of historical territory, extending the "Rise of the Phoenicians" to the copper on Cyprus would be cool, as it would give the player the option of buying a mine for it on advanced start, which would be interesting for opening up a new potential rush strategy.
UHV3: Carthaginian Periplus: Reveal half of the African coast by 1 AD
The lakes in Africa are currently designated as "African coast", as is the coast of Madagascar. I think the lakes should lose this designation, and possibly the Madagascar coast should lose it as well. I can currently complete the goal with a scout scoping out the Red Sea and the African lakes, and having two colonies to bypass the capes in the Canary Islands and Gold Coast. If the lakes and Madagascar lose their "African Coast" status, I don't know where that leaves the African coast percentage on the west side of the continent, or how many colonies you would like to have the player settle to complete this goal. But I did want to mention my current meta.
Unique Power: The Power of Mercenaries: Can always hurry units with gold and pays half the cost and pays no extra upkeep for hurried units
This unique power not only helps keep Phoenicia extremely versatile in responding to threats, but also allows them to bypass having a large
base in order to train a strong military, and allows them to do it in a fraction of the time. However, with the introduction of the Thalassocracy civic, the dye resources in the Mediterranean, and the increased number of turns to prepare for the Punic Wars, I think this leads to this unique power being way too powerful at the moment. In my game, my 5 cities were bringing in 80 
/turn at 100% in 450 BC. For contrast, a War Elephant costs 63! I think this unique power should lose the "pays half the cost" part, so that the player needs to spend 2 for every . I think it made sense on the small map, especially with the Phoenician "Accumulate gold" goal, but not now.
Republic:
Other than the increased yield to fishing boats, another aspect of Republic that used to help out coastal civilizations was the free specialist slots from 1.17. Coastal cities not only tend to have less for building libraries and markets, but, in the case of Phoenicia, you are planting down several cities that may not be reached by a worker for many turns. That free specialist slot could help those new colonies at least turn a profit before their resources are improved. Or forego needing to make a pagan temple to expand your culture: Just hire an artist for a few turns!
My idea for how Republic could be reworked would be: Return the free scientist, artist, merchant and statesman slot from 1.17. Also, give the player a free specialist in the capital, as well as any city they have constructed a wonder in. Constructing a wonder in the capital would net two specialists. Capturing an enemy city with a wonder wouldn't count for the free specialist. I think this would not only encourage the player to make wonders in many cities (Greek and Italian civilizations), but allow a capital to be a strong hub of wealth and inspiration with its world wonder (Phoenicia, Dutch).
Unique Units and Building
The Numidian Calvary has the potential to be an excellent Legion slayer, however the difficulty of improving and connecting the horse, and potentially losing the copper, meant I was relying much more on War Elephants in my game.
The Sacred Band is okay; You can sacrifice a couple of them in an amphibious attack against an archer city, and they're good at defense against the barbarian Camel Riders. But overall nothing to write home about. (But that's okay.)
You probably don't have time to build any Glassmaker. However, if the free specialist slots are brought back, unlocking it would give a free merchant and artist slot, ahead of researching Currency and Literature respectively. So I think it's okay. Maybe it can give a
with dye, to tie it into Phoenicia's favorite resource.
No real suggestions here. The unique units and building are all decent enough.
UHV1: Traders in Purple: Control 5 Dye resources and have 15 trade routes by 300 BC
I really like this new goal for 1.18, as it emphasizes settling many colonies, running merchant trade, and working sea resources. All very thematic for Phoenicia. However, I do think it can be made more difficult. Spawning in on Turn 70, Phoenicia has until Turn 140 to complete this goal. I think expanding this goal to 20 trade routes, 5 harvest boats, and 5 fishing boats would be appropriate, and force the player to settle more colonies that don't just provide access to Dye or through the African capes, as is currently the case. The unique power of the Phoenicians allows them to be super flexible when it comes to training a military, and they can therefore spend more of their early game expanding and settling, and forego training a sizable military until later on.
UHV2: Build a Palace and the Great Cothon in Carthage by 400 BC and control Italy and Iberia by 150 BC
As I mentioned in the General Thread, my only complaint with the goal is that the control goal is by, when I think it should be in. As it is currently possible to control Italy and Iberia before the Romans even spawn.
Greece has a tendency of sniping the Great Cothon. Maybe we can move the Great Cothon to Navigation, to decrease the likelihood of this happening? And move the Lighthouse back to Shipbuilding, to prevent Navigation from being too overloaded with content.
Also, I recommend that Phoenicia should have historical tiles over all of Sicily, rather than just on the wheat resource, as Messana seems to be the "canon" Sicily spot, allowing ships to sail by and not being located on a resource.
I think there was a post recently where Greek culture from Sicily had spread to Carthage's location, and prevented it from being settled by the AI. I think the tile of Carthage should be included in the "Rise of the Phoenicians" area, to purge any foreign culture, allowing it to be settled by Phoenicia. (Why does the AI like settling Oyat before Carthage?)
On the topic of historical territory, extending the "Rise of the Phoenicians" to the copper on Cyprus would be cool, as it would give the player the option of buying a mine for it on advanced start, which would be interesting for opening up a new potential rush strategy.
UHV3: Carthaginian Periplus: Reveal half of the African coast by 1 AD
The lakes in Africa are currently designated as "African coast", as is the coast of Madagascar. I think the lakes should lose this designation, and possibly the Madagascar coast should lose it as well. I can currently complete the goal with a scout scoping out the Red Sea and the African lakes, and having two colonies to bypass the capes in the Canary Islands and Gold Coast. If the lakes and Madagascar lose their "African Coast" status, I don't know where that leaves the African coast percentage on the west side of the continent, or how many colonies you would like to have the player settle to complete this goal. But I did want to mention my current meta.
Unique Power: The Power of Mercenaries: Can always hurry units with gold and pays half the cost and pays no extra upkeep for hurried units
This unique power not only helps keep Phoenicia extremely versatile in responding to threats, but also allows them to bypass having a large
base in order to train a strong military, and allows them to do it in a fraction of the time. However, with the introduction of the Thalassocracy civic, the dye resources in the Mediterranean, and the increased number of turns to prepare for the Punic Wars, I think this leads to this unique power being way too powerful at the moment. In my game, my 5 cities were bringing in 80 /turn at 100% in 450 BC. For contrast, a War Elephant costs 63! I think this unique power should lose the "pays half the cost" part, so that the player needs to spend 2 for every . I think it made sense on the small map, especially with the Phoenician "Accumulate gold" goal, but not now.Republic:
Other than the increased yield to fishing boats, another aspect of Republic that used to help out coastal civilizations was the free specialist slots from 1.17. Coastal cities not only tend to have less
for building libraries and markets, but, in the case of Phoenicia, you are planting down several cities that may not be reached by a worker for many turns. That free specialist slot could help those new colonies at least turn a profit before their resources are improved. Or forego needing to make a pagan temple to expand your culture: Just hire an artist for a few turns!My idea for how Republic could be reworked would be: Return the free scientist, artist, merchant and statesman slot from 1.17. Also, give the player a free specialist in the capital, as well as any city they have constructed a wonder in. Constructing a wonder in the capital would net two specialists. Capturing an enemy city with a wonder wouldn't count for the free specialist. I think this would not only encourage the player to make wonders in many cities (Greek and Italian civilizations), but allow a capital to be a strong hub of wealth and inspiration with its world wonder (Phoenicia, Dutch).
Unique Units and Building
The Numidian Calvary has the potential to be an excellent Legion slayer, however the difficulty of improving and connecting the horse, and potentially losing the copper, meant I was relying much more on War Elephants in my game.
The Sacred Band is okay; You can sacrifice a couple of them in an amphibious attack against an archer city, and they're good at defense against the barbarian Camel Riders. But overall nothing to write home about. (But that's okay.)
You probably don't have time to build any Glassmaker. However, if the free specialist slots are brought back, unlocking it would give a free merchant and artist slot, ahead of researching Currency and Literature respectively. So I think it's okay. Maybe it can give a
with dye, to tie it into Phoenicia's favorite resource.No real suggestions here. The unique units and building are all decent enough.
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Nice, never even considered that.
