The pre-AFSNES I.

[shortguy]

Neo-Arecome, OTL Britain and parts of France. Are there any other players near me? I don't think the Friisi or the Irish (I forgot what they're called already) are PC...

I'm the Frisii.

What should I gather from the fact that everyone seems to think that my nation is NPC?

 

[The13thRonin]

I'm the Frisii.

What should I gather from the fact that everyone seems to think that my nation is NPC?

Tell you what Ireland, how about we start trading together? That'll might help increase both of our nations wealth and then you'll be a bit more on Europe's map. Oh and if you'd like to send some regiments down to my capital I'm sure we could organize you into some of our future campaigns. Glory and spoils await your anticipated answer .

 

[LightFang]

I refuse to roll over and give up the Sardinians. Can we not work out a vassalization/work-for-your-benefit kind of thing? >:|

 

[JosefStalinator]

I'm the Frisii.

What should I gather from the fact that everyone seems to think that my nation is NPC?

I think its more due to the character of your nation; the fact its a big, amorphous blob-like confederacy of tribes. Players tend to take unitary states with singular (or oligarchical) rulers. This doesn't diminish your playing style, just that its usually assumed that nations of that type are NPC.

Regardless; get the hell out of Britain! The Dumnorix will not stand to have Germanic influence tainting ancestral Celtic territories. Concentrate on fighting the huge brown blob to your East.

 

[shortguy]

I think its more due to the character of your nation; the fact its a big, amorphous blob-like confederacy of tribes. Players tend to take unitary states with singular (or oligarchical) rulers. This doesn't diminish your playing style, just that its usually assumed that nations of that type are NPC.

Well, a centralized state in Germany in the 5th century just won't do. Of course, I've never really had much success centralizing anyway.

Regardless; get the hell out of Britain! The Dumnorix will not stand to have Germanic influence tainting ancestral Celtic territories. Concentrate on fighting the huge brown blob to your East.

A measure of rapprochement would seem to be in order. We'll see.

 

[The13thRonin]

[rant] I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that I'm unimpressed with the current stance most players seem to take to diplomacy. I've been told on more than one occasion "sorry, it's not feasible that our nations be talking, we don't know you exist." I'm not trying to contact the Incas in Southern America I'm trying to have a diplomatic talk with a nation that resides somewhere on the other side of the Europe and whats more has an adequate coastline! Diplomats by 400AD were spread all over Europe and indeed the world (as I'm sure Das could attest to). The ship and the horse were powerful tools of transportation. If I was to get in a ship and attempt to get from Constantinople to Britain in 400AD the max, absolute max it would take me is one year with adequate ports to resupply at. Considering that each of Das' updates cover 400 years how the hell is it unfeasible that I create diplomatic treaties with a nation on the Italian mainland or even the British islands? I think either some nations in this NES are run by incompetent tuna fish or some people are seriously underestimating the capabilities of mankind at 400AD. We had rather sophisticated technology. If my people can understand the mechanics of an aqueduct I'm sure planning a six-month sea voyage wouldn't be a problem *MAJOR SIGH* [/rant]

 

[JosefStalinator]

Maybe we don't enjoy the idea of our soldiers marching off for 10+ years when they could be at home doing some good for our nation?

 

[Kal'thzar]

uhh In 400 AD Europe was dominated by the Roman Empire, slightly different, you know?

 

[LightFang]

Maybe we don't enjoy the idea of our soldiers marching off for 10+ years when they could be at home doing some good for our nation?

My sentiments exactly. I sure as hell would not send diplomats out in an area where it takes a bloody year to get a response back. That's a year out there for my offer and a year back for their counteroffer, and on and on. No, just no.

 

[shortguy]

[rant] I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that I'm unimpressed with the current stance most players seem to take to diplomacy. I've been told on more than one occasion "sorry, it's not feasible that our nations be talking, we don't know you exist." I'm not trying to contact the Incas in Southern America I'm trying to have a diplomatic talk with a nation that resides somewhere on the other side of the Europe and whats more has an adequate coastline! Diplomats by 400AD were spread all over Europe and indeed the world (as I'm sure Das could attest to). The ship and the horse were powerful tools of transportation. If I was to get in a ship and attempt to get from Constantinople to Britain in 400AD the max, absolute max it would take me is one year with adequate ports to resupply at. Considering that each of Das' updates cover 400 years how the hell is it unfeasible that I create diplomatic treaties with a nation on the Italian mainland or even the British islands? I think either some nations in this NES are run by incompetent tuna fish or some people are seriously underestimating the capabilities of mankind at 400AD. We had rather sophisticated technology. If my people can understand the mechanics of an aqueduct I'm sure planning a six-month sea voyage wouldn't be a problem *MAJOR SIGH* [/rant]

There's a big difference between knowing of the existence of another realm and having the sort of close contact necessary to form and carry out any sort of meaningful treaty. I also think that you're overstating the ease of a journey from Greece to Britain. That's a very long journey, and you'd have to secure port rights from a whole lot of nations (most importantly Tartessos, who can block the straits at will). Additionally, the sorts of boats conducive to sailing in the Mediterranean aren't necessarily those suited for the Atlantic. Really, at this level of technology sailing in the open Atlantic is a pretty bad idea for most anybody.

 

[The13thRonin]

Maybe we don't enjoy the idea of our soldiers marching off for 10+ years when they could be at home doing some good for our nation?

Then at least have the honesty to admit that instead of "Oh that idea would never work, not feasible."

I have listened to the rest of your points on the technological limitations and I'm not convinced. Humanity was sophisticated at 400AD beyond what most of you are giving credit for. Hell if the great pyramids were built roughly 2400 years before this time era I'm sure people could organize a few months voyage at sea. No nation ever got anywhere from looking only as far as the next nations borders. May I remind you all of Rome who much before 400AD conquered all the way into Britain and Africa? They required ships and complex voyages to make such conquests. Unless of course you think they marched across the ocean. This is a great game but people are making it REALLY hard to achieve even the most base diplomatic aims. If you all want to concentrate on your tiny spheres of the world then fine. But Hessonia is not content to do so. We will expand our horizons ever further for the glory of the empire. Not just militarily but commercially and diplomatically. I implore all diplomatically minded nations to open communications with me so we can start working on treaties to make the world a better place. Enough senseless destruction has been caused by lack of communication and pointless war. We shall still have war but war with a purpose, righteous war. Look to the stars and say not today, not tomorrow but one day they will be mine.

My sentiments exactly. I sure as hell would not send diplomats out in an area where it takes a bloody year to get a response back. That's a year out there for my offer and a year back for their counteroffer, and on and on. No, just no.

No offense LightFang but didn't your nation get annexed?

 

[Niklas]

Although, I would claim that you, Niklas, didn't really get nothing out of what you wanted. The church did prove its durability, for instance, and most of the "demon-cults" within the territories under Neo-Akkadian control had been eliminated by now. The various military advances were likewise made, with new advanced anti-cavalry weapons and tactics. So it isn't as simple as that, though naturally, an elaborate plan that fails to account for time and the unexpected can generally be worse than a more simplistic and ambigous one, especially in a BT, where we have a particularily long amount of time.

Indeed. What I said was an overstatement, it was said in affect and frustration. My appologies for that.

I didn't get nothing - I just didn't get the one thing that I truly cared about for my future plans of the area. I didn't mind being conquered, I don't mind the successor states, and I'm glad the church is strong. But these things are only temporary matters, the state of the area will change so much over the next BT updates that it matters little. The one thing that mattered most, and that I truly worked hard to achieve - the missionary efforts - were shrugged off as largely unsuccessful, and that's what frustrated me. But re-reading the update, all may not be lost. Expect a bunch of questions some time later.

I'm the Frisii.

What should I gather from the fact that everyone seems to think that my nation is NPC?

I think it's simply the fact that you have made no public claims or mentions of it. How could we possibly tell a PC and an NPC nation apart just by reading the update?

[rant] I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that I'm unimpressed with the current stance most players seem to take to diplomacy. I've been told on more than one occasion "sorry, it's not feasible that our nations be talking, we don't know you exist." I'm not trying to contact the Incas in Southern America I'm trying to have a diplomatic talk with a nation that resides somewhere on the other side of the Europe and whats more has an adequate coastline! Diplomats by 400AD were spread all over Europe and indeed the world (as I'm sure Das could attest to). The ship and the horse were powerful tools of transportation. If I was to get in a ship and attempt to get from Constantinople to Britain in 400AD the max, absolute max it would take me is one year with adequate ports to resupply at. Considering that each of Das' updates cover 400 years how the hell is it unfeasible that I create diplomatic treaties with a nation on the Italian mainland or even the British islands? I think either some nations in this NES are run by incompetent tuna fish or some people are seriously underestimating the capabilities of mankind at 400AD. We had rather sophisticated technology. If my people can understand the mechanics of an aqueduct I'm sure planning a six-month sea voyage wouldn't be a problem *MAJOR SIGH* [/rant]

There are a number of things that I think are behind this. First and foremost, this is the BT part of the game. Diplomatic ties are not really something we're expected to play with, and in particular, well-coordinated plans don't really make sense since das could thwart everything a century later. Also, while it would certainly be possible to sail from Greece to Britain in the 400s, the question is what the point is. Merchants might brave that trip to make a profit, but diplomatic ties wouldn't be very useful. In those days, diplomatic ties was something you had with those you might otherwise be risking a war with. What kind of diplomacy could Greece possibly have to offer Britain? "Let's not fight"? Big chance for that anyway. "Let's ally against X"? Coordination efforts would be impossible when a one-way trip is several months at best. And of course also what I said about BTs.

This is a great game but people are making it REALLY hard to achieve even the most base diplomatic aims. If you all want to concentrate on your tiny spheres of the world then fine. But Hessonia is not content to do so. We will expand our horizons ever further for the glory of the empire. Not just militarily but commercially and diplomatically. I implore all diplomatically minded nations to open communications with me so we can start working on treaties to make the world a better place. Enough senseless destruction has been caused by lack of communication and pointless war. We shall still have war but war with a purpose, righteous war. Look to the stars and say not today, not tomorrow but one day they will be mine.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. To say that Hessonia isn't content to sit back and rest is a statement in the now. Any treaties signed will probably be honored for a few decades at most, until the next ruler comes along with megalomanial tendencies, or the next barbaric invasion that puts everything on its head. The next BT is going to span a few hundred years, and in that time it's not even certain that Hessonia will exist! In fact, chances are really great that it won't, judging by history. What nations in the 400s were still around 300 years later? The BTs are simply too long, too uncertain, too wide in scope for treaties and similar detailed issues to make any real sense.

So, trying to make a long story short, diplomatic ties are great and all, but at this point it only really makes sense between neighbors, and only in the broad sense. Just wait until the game starts for real, only two more BTs to go.

ps. I'm your neighbor and didn't get any diplomacy, should I be worried?

 

[silver 2039]

Is the coming BT, the last BT>>? I'm wondering if its worth sending orders for it or not.

 

[The13thRonin]

ps. I'm your neighbor and didn't get any diplomacy, should I be worried?

Would you like to have diplomatic relations (that sounds so dirty for some reason)?

Hey after the AFS is over will the NES continue? *worried look*.

 

[Niklas]

Is the coming BT, the last BT>>? I'm wondering if its worth sending orders for it or not.

It's probably the second to last, according to the first page.

Would you like to have diplomatic relations (that sounds so dirty for some reason)?

But yeah, I'll probably have a thing or two to say to you. Expect a PM some time soon.

Hey after the AFS is over will the NES continue? *worried look*.

After the pre-AFSNES is over, the AFSNES will start. AFS stands for Advanced Fresh Start, which is what we're setting up right now. The real NES will feature actual rules, with stats for economy, army sizes and quality, education, stability, etc. The turns will be much shorter in span, probably 5 years in a turn or so. That's when all the fun maneuvering and politicking can start for real.

 

[Toltec]

Hmm, where to go, where to go
oh west Africa looks empty...

 

[Kal'thzar]

AFRICA IS MINE, ALL MINE.

I won't be happy until africa is all gray.

 

[Abaddon]

Thnk i'l start a pink nation then to counterrrrakt ur greyz

 

[Flavius Aetius]

Could the; Spanish state, new Italian state, Iberian state and North German state all personal message me? I'd like to open diplomatic channels.

And Liguria? Why Liguria is so malteated?

 

[The13thRonin]

Hessonia for glory!

Why am I receiving only a few diplomatic personal messages? MORE, MORE!