The Problem With Plastic

[MobBoss]

They didn't say it came from the middle of the ocean.

Besides, some kinds of sea turtles do have claws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawksbill_turtle#Anatomy_and_morphology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Sea_Turtle#Anatomy_and_Morphology

The turtle is obviously deformed, not only from the plastic band but also probably from having ingested high amounts of plastics, which as the article says can cause mutations even in small amounts. Given that it's so deformed, I'd like such an obvious expert on turtle anatomy as yourself to readily identify it. Really, I would.

I see your story and raise you some facts FTW.

Please look at the photos of the turtles you linked...and their coloration. The turtles head in the article is in no way matching the heads of the sea turtles. But it does match the head of the snapping turtle.

Also, please look carefully at the article turtles front legs....it doenst have finned forlegs...but the seaturtles do.

Pasi, for once...use a bit of common sense and see with your own eyes a bit of evidence in front of you. Its not a sea turtle even if the article says it is. Obviously the person who wrote the piece wasnt the same person who put in the photo. Its typical of crappy reporting/editing.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Please look at the photos of the turtles you linked...and their coloration. The turtles head in the article is in no way matching the heads of the sea turtles. But it does match the head of the snapping turtle.

Also, please look carefully at the article turtles front legs....it doenst have finned forlegs...but the seaturtles do.

Pasi, for once...use a bit of common sense and see with your own eyes a bit of evidence in front of you. Its not a sea turtle even if the article says it is. Obviously the person who wrote the piece wasnt the same person who put in the photo. Its typical of crappy reporting/editing.

Once again, the turtle is very seriously deformed. I would still love for such an expert on the subject as yourself to be able to readily identify it.

 

[mrt144]

So now you discount what I say because I am a christian? Dude, you have problems.

I grew up in the South, in East Arkansas where it was very swampy. I have seen tons of snapping turtles in my day. Thats why I gave you the links so you can see for yourself that the turtle pic in this thread is far closer to a snapping turtle than a sea turtle.

But you feel you have to bring up me being a christian in this line of debate?

What in the living hell is wrong with you?

Seek some counseling over your issues. I am not kidding.

Moderator Action: Flaming - warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

dude, you don't get it. You saw something wrong, you call their credibility into question because of it, and discount any positive the article may render.

I see something wrong with the basis you reason from, I call your credibility into question because of it, and discount any positive you could provide. (not that I actually believe this, but cmon, you see how the jump can be made?)

 

[MobBoss]

Once again, the turtle is very seriously deformed. I would still love for such an expert on the subject as yourself to be able to readily identify it.

Sigh. Its only deformed in its shell....not its head, nor its legs. A plastic band around its shell isnt going to magically give it claws when it should have fins.

It also begs the question, if it is a deformed sea turtle, exactly how did it live to maturity out in the middle of the ocean with claws instead of fins?

Think about it.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Sigh. Its only deformed in its shell....not its head, nor its legs. A plastic band around its shell isnt going to magically give it claws when it should have fins.

It also begs the question, if it is a deformed sea turtle, exactly how did it live to maturity out in the middle of the ocean with claws instead of fins?

Think about it.

Once again, for the reading impaired, it is heavily deformed. Not only around the shell, but it probably has ingested large amounts of plastic material, which according to the article can cause genetic mutations even in small doses. Doubtless the shell is not the only thing deformed on it. Some kinds of sea turtles do have claws, and we only see claws on the rear fins. The front fin (only one is visible) could be deformed so as to be much smaller than normal. We also don't know that it is in the wild, or if it's fully mature. Doubtless it is in captivity as it couldn't survive in the wild because of its various deformities.

I really don't enjoy repeating myself until people get it.

 

[MobBoss]

dude, you don't get it. You saw something wrong, you call their credibility into question because of it, and discount any positive the article may render.

If an article is shown to have included such obvious misleading information, I think it does call into question the rest of the information in the article. If it is wrong in that particular detail in which it included a photo what else is it wrong in that we cant see because of a lack of a photo? And lets face it, that photo was precisely put in for its disturbing image. Its meant to shock the reader to feel something. But due to the fact that they got their facts wrong on the photo, it utterly spoils the purpose of the article when its viewed by someone who has an attention to such detail.

I see something wrong with the basis you reason from, I call your credibility into question because of it, and discount any positive you could provide. (not that I actually believe this, but cmon, you see how the jump can be made?)

The basis I reasoned this from had nothing, NOTHING to do with my religion. But that is exactly what you referred to in order to discount what I mentioned. You didnt call my crediblity into question because you thought I was wrong about the turtle...you called it into question because I am a christian. And that is just beyond lame.

 

[mrt144]

read the parenthetical statement mobboss. I dont actually believe that being christian precludes anything reasonable, and you're quite reasonable most the time.

the statement I made in jest is similar to what you do when you see something that mars an otherwise good point. there is too much plastic waste. you saw something that calls the credibility of the example of a turtle into question which makes you question there being too much plastic waste.

if they had said "this poor shelled creature" you wouldnt bat an eye, so the misidentification doesnt matter because it still does evoke reaction. Why is this animal ringed by plastic?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Once again, for the reading impaired, it is heavily deformed. Not only around the shell, but it probably has ingested large amounts of plastic material, which according to the article can cause genetic mutations even in small doses. Doubtless the shell is not the only thing deformed on it. Some kinds of sea turtles do have claws, and we only see claws on the rear fins. The front fin (only one is visible) could be deformed so as to be much smaller than normal. We also don't know that it is in the wild, or if it's fully mature. Doubtless it is in captivity as it couldn't survive in the wild because of its various deformities.

I really don't enjoy repeating myself until people get it.

Mutations do not magically turn creatures into exact copies of other turtles. There is still the question of how a turtle with the exact anatomy of a snapping turtle would survive as a sea turtle, being as it wouldn't be able to swim.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Mutations do not magically turn creatures into exact copies of other turtles. There is still the question of how a turtle with the exact anatomy of a snapping turtle would survive as a sea turtle, being as it wouldn't be able to swim.

How do you know it is an exact copy of a snapping turtle? Are you some kind of expert at turtle anatomy? No? Damn, I thought I'd finally found such a person.

And how do you know it survived in the wild? How do you know it wasn't found washed ashore many years ago and brought into captivity so that it could survive?

And finally, do you think that a plastic garbage heap over 500,000 square miles in size floating in the Pacific Ocean is somehow not a bad thing? Are you suggesting that because you cannot identify what kind of turtle the picture is of that nothing should be done to rectify the situation?

 

[MobBoss]

Once again, for the reading impaired, it is heavily deformed. Not only around the shell, but it probably has ingested large amounts of plastic material, which according to the article can cause genetic mutations even in small doses.

Think about what you are saying. You do realize that a huge amount of humans food is packed in plastic containers. Even our medicines and blood for transfusion is contained in PLASTIC. You do realize that there is no evidence what-so-ever that ingesting said platic causes genetic mutations, even in small doses...because IF IT DID, none, repeat NONE, of our food, medicine, blood plasma, would be contained in it.

/sheesh.

Do you automatically believe every single little thing that you read online?

Doubtless the shell is not the only thing deformed on it.

Couple of points. I think it a directly false assumption to assume that this turtle has in any way consumed plastic. Its problem is evident....in its youth it got a plastic band wrapped around it. That doesnt mean it ate a bunch of plastic and became mutated.

Some kinds of sea turtles do have claws, and we only see claws on the rear fins.

Ah...no, I see claws on the front legs as well. But I see no fins on any appendage.

Again...if this were a mutation, the animal wouldnt have claws...it would probably just have a stump for a leg as a mutated fin. But not fully developed claws. This isnt the X-Turtles and that isnt Wolver-turtle.

I really cant believe you are going to debate this. Its funny as hell.

The front fin (only one is visible) could be deformed so as to be much smaller than normal. We also don't know that it is in the wild, or if it's fully mature. Doubtless it is in captivity as it couldn't survive in the wild because of its various deformities.

If it were in captivity someone would have cut the plastic band off.

I really don't enjoy repeating myself until people get it.

Nono.....we get it...we are just going to wait and see how long it takes YOU to get it.

 

[ParkCungHee]

How do you know it is an exact copy of a snapping turtle? Are you some kind of expert at turtle anatomy? No? Damn, I thought I'd finally found such a person.

I worked in a reptile museum for a year. I fed snapping turtles every day. That and I can, you know, look at two pictures and match them up. A key skill I learned in coloring books in the 1st grade.

And how do you know it survived in the wild? How do you know it wasn't found washed ashore many years ago and brought into captivity so that it could survive?

If it did not live to adulthood in the wild then its a case of negligent owners who should have removed the band when it was a baby.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Mobboss, youre good. You masterfully turned the discussion from the harm we're doing to the environment (conservatives see environmentalism as a liberal/socialist Trojan Horse), to an argument about turtle classification.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I worked in a reptile museum for a year. I fed snapping turtles every day.

Right, and I fly around wearing my jetpack every night and fight Nazis.

If it did not live to adulthood in the wild then its a case of negligent owners who should have removed the band when it was a baby.

How do you know they could not without killing it?

 

[MobBoss]

read the parenthetical statement mobboss. I dont actually believe that being christian precludes anything reasonable, and you're quite reasonable most the time.

the statement I made in jest is similar to what you do when you see something that mars an otherwise good point. there is too much plastic waste. you saw something that calls the credibility of the example of a turtle into question which makes you question there being too much plastic waste.

Full stop. Where in the hell did I ever question that there was too much plastic waste? I never said that. I merely said that if the story was incorrect on this point that it could be incorrect on other points as well.

I never questioned that there was too much plastic waste in the world. There probably is. That doesnt mean I think this story is essentially entirely factual in all it says. In fact, the photo proves its not.

if they had said "this poor shelled creature" you wouldnt bat an eye, so the misidentification doesnt matter because it still does evoke reaction. Why is this animal ringed by plastic?

Most likely it got it wrapped around its shell while it was trying to get food out of a container or something. I also wouldnt put it past a kid putting it on it and releasing it just to watch it swim away with a red band around it. Kids do odd things sometimes.

 

[MobBoss]

Mobboss, youre good. You masterfully turned the discussion from the harm we're doing to the environment (conservatives see environmentalism as a liberal/socialist Trojan Horse), to an argument about turtle classification.

And not only that...I happen to be correct in my arguement.

 

[mrt144]

he didnt fool me. I keep asking why he supports turtles being bound in rings of plastic by throwing out red herrings.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Mobboss, youre good. You masterfully turned the discussion from the harm we're doing to the environment (conservatives see environmentalism as a liberal/socialist Trojan Horse), to an argument about turtle classification.

well if jesus put that snapping turtle into the ocean, he obviously meant for his life to be like this.

THIS IS GOD'S PLAN PEOPLE.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Think about what you are saying. You do realize that a huge amount of humans food is packed in plastic containers. Even our medicines and blood for transfusion is contained in PLASTIC. You do realize that there is no evidence what-so-ever that ingesting said platic causes genetic mutations, even in small doses...because IF IT DID, none, repeat NONE, of our food, medicine, blood plasma, would be contained in it.

/sheesh.

Do you automatically believe every single little thing that you read online?

Most of us aren't stupid enough to eat plastic. Putting a piece of ham inside a plastic container is a far cry from eating plastic.

Couple of points. I think it a directly false assumption to assume that this turtle has in any way consumed plastic. Its problem is evident....in its youth it got a plastic band wrapped around it. That doesnt mean it ate a bunch of plastic and became mutated.

The article explicitly states that many animals mistake coloured plastic for types of food. I'm saying that it probably did that. Not much of a stretch.

Ah...no, I see claws on the front legs as well. But I see no fins on any appendage.

I don't. Quit making stuff up.

Again...if this were a mutation, the animal wouldnt have claws...it would probably just have a stump for a leg as a mutated fin. But not fully developed claws.

C:/DOS/repeat.exe

>>Some kinds of sea turtles do, in fact, have claws.

If it were in captivity someone would have cut the plastic band off.

Unless to do so would kill it.

I guess you think that plastic waste is a good thing, and that the existence of a giant heap of it twice the size of Texas is just another scheme concocted by gay Democrats to hurt America.

 

[mrt144]

Full stop. Where in the hell did I ever question that there was too much plastic waste? I never said that. I merely said that if the story was incorrect on this point that it could be incorrect on other points as well.

I never questioned that there was too much plastic waste in the world. There probably is. That doesnt mean I think this story is essentially entirely factual in all it says. In fact, the photo proves its not.



Most likely it got it wrapped around its shell while it was trying to get food out of a container or something. I also wouldnt put it past a kid putting it on it and releasing it just to watch it swim away with a red band around it. Kids do odd things sometimes.

Of course the rest of it could be incorrect but you're taking one obvious example of it being wrong and saying "well this one thing is wrong so screw it, its all wrong". in fact, you harping on this without mentioning the thrust of the article means you wanted to divert people from the thrust of the article.

theres still too much plastic and theres still a poor turtle with a ring around it.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Right, and I fly around wearing my jetpack every night and fight Nazis.

You ask for something, and when you get it, you don't like it.

I worked in the Long Island Reptile Museum over the summer. Whats so hard to believe about that? Amongst other things this reptile museum has Snaping Turtles. Among My duties there was to feed said snapping turtles.

How do you know they could not without killing it?

Because sea turtles, even severely deformed ones, go out to see at birth. It would have either died at sea, or been mutated at birth and picked up within minutes thereof. Unless you've suddenly decided to embrace ID, thats how natural selection works.