The project with no name yet

[The Last Conformist]

I decided to play on a bit after formal victory:

1464: Fall of Mistra, last Byzantine holdout.
1472: Aydins eliminated.

 

[Yoda Power]

Ok, how about making the new limits 30% territory and 50% population (I want to encourage the improving of cities) instead of 2x25%, and 50000 instead of 35000. Woulld that be to high?

 

[Kyriakos]

Did you compile the city sets yourself? There appear to be bits and pieces from various sets there

 

[Yoda Power]

The Italian and Islamic sets were some I made for my private mod a long time ago, I never relased them though, since they are pretty similar and use pieces of many other sets.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Ok, how about making the new limits 30% territory and 50% population (I want to encourage the improving of cities) instead of 2x25%, and 50000 instead of 35000. Woulld that be to high?

I think that sounds good. Maybe ease the pop requirement a little bit.

 

[Takhisis]

Will you include the Spanish here? they played a large part in the Western Mediterranean (from the snapshots, the map reaches to Corsica and Sardinia), especially the Crown of Aragon, which controlled the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, and the dukedoms of Neopatria and Athens in Greece.
The Spanish and the Turks fought all over the Mediterranean for dominance until Lepantum, but that was a bit later on.
You should probably include the Holy Roman Empire which will war against everyone in the Balkans.

Note: i haven´t played the mod.

 

[Mithadan]

Sweet looking mod. Sadly, I've got nothing else to say about it (can't spare the time or HD space to play it! But someday, I swear...).

Edit: "Crossroads of the Cosmos" or whatever was said earlier sounds really cool for a name. Maybe a little science fiction, though, I suppose...

 

[Yoda Power]

TLC- 45% pop then

Tak- By the time this scenario starts, they controlled sardinia and sicily I think. However I didn't include them because it would take a lot of land from Genoa, which is one of the playable civs. Genoa and Naples just have to represent the Spanish. The HRE wasn't really a faction in it self, it is represented by the Italian states.

Mit- What a shame, you should really try it out

 

[LouLong]

I played with Rhodes.

First, nice job !

The Ottomans damaged the Byzantines in Europe and destroyed Trabzond pretty quickly. However, maybe because they tried (and failed obviously) to take Byzantium they became kind of weak in front of Serbia.

I focused on building up till Venezia threatened me. I refused so they declared war and that meant I quickly added a few more islands to my realm albeit I became the focus of lots of alliances (either military or TE). But only the Mamluks really did send a land force (a lone horseman !!).

But a few sea battles occured (turned good for me and made me get quite a few pirate ships then lost nearly all in a bad turn).

Only one city razed before 1466.

Main issues :
- Genova has hired soldiers in 1422 (maybe earlier) which meant the tech-tree was too fast. Albeit I was far from it (and so were the Latin Sates)
- Naples was really strong. They destroyed Firenze then Siena.

Here are three saves including 1466, the turn when the game stalled. I tried reloading but it did not change anything.

 

[Mithadan]

Mit- What a shame, you should really try it out

Yeah, I know, but that how it goes with pretty much any scenario (except the Lord of the Mods, I gotta be committed to that one).

 

[Takhisis]

The HRE wasn't really a faction in it self, it is represented by the Italian states.

NO! The HRE was germany at that time! After the conquest of Bucarest and Belgrad, the Turks moved against Budapest (ending in the battle of Mohacs and the death of the Hungarian King) and then besieged Vienna several times in the 16th and 17th centuries.

 

[Yoda Power]

Lou- Interesting. I'm gonna check out your saves in a few seconds

Tak- Well Germany and Vienna isn't on the map so how should I include it? I would never include the HRE, but instead the Habsburgs, who are in fact the faction you seem to refer too. Yes I know that they were also the emeperors of the HRE, but it is still not the same thing. The HRE was a institution of many states, with Austria leading them only officially.

 

[Takhisis]

Belgrad, Bucarest and Budapest should be at all costs! They were the main cities of the balkans, and that´s where the Turks went after ASAP.

 

[Yoda Power]

Belgrade is on the map.
Buda and Pest are not since Hungary is not on the map. There are a few reasons why it is so. First of all I wanted to focus on the early years of turkish expansion (pre-Suleyman the Magnificent). Secondly this scenario is not only about the Ottomans. There are other playable factions that have their "area of influence" in the sea, and not on the Balkans. Thirdly I don't want a bigger map than standard, and if I included Hungary it would mean the other areas would have to be smaller, and that would make it more boring to play the other factions.
Bucarest technically could be on the map, but it did not grow big untill after Ottoman conquest, so instead I added the cities that were most important in the Wallachian times.

 

[Yoda Power]

Ok after checking Lou's saves, and my own testing I have come to the conclusion that these are the main problems so far:

1. The Ottomans are pretty easy to play, because they get a big advantedge. However this is not enough to help them in the hands of a stupid AI, so they seem to die out. This was not the fact before I gave the Byzantines a GA in the beginning of the game, as far as my old testing showed. In a way I feel the Byzantines should not have a GA, but that is kinda unfair if you play as them, since all the other playable civs gets can get GA's. Does anyone have an idea how to make the Ottomans more succesful, without giving the player an easier time than he is having now?
2. The technology tree is advancing very fast. To counter this I can either make the techs mopre expensive, or make some/all of them non-tradeable. In that case which ones should not be tradeable?

 

[The Last Conformist]

I think tech costs should go up.

Maybe also put in a couple "filler" techs.

No good ideas on balancing the Ottomans, really.

Maybe weaken the other Turks? I found it easier to expand in the Balkans than in Anatolia, yet in reality the Ottoman's territory in Anatolia was considerably larger than that in the Balkans when Timur invaded.

 

[Yoda Power]

Yeah weakining the other turks is a possibility. Or maybe have them in locked war with the Ottomans too (probably only the Westerns ans the Sirvasians as they were the first to be absorbed, maybe Karamans too).

Any idea for filler techs?

 

[LouLong]

Yeah weakining the other turks is a possibility. Or maybe have them in locked war with the Ottomans too (probably only the Westerns ans the Sirvasians as they were the first to be absorbed, maybe Karamans too).

Any idea for filler techs?

Indeed putting them in locked war with one of the western Turks would help them spread. About the Balkans their main problem is probably the fact they have to cross at Gallipolli and the AI is usually bad at crossing. Maybe an improvement (with culture) spawning some horsemen in the Balkans called something like Balkan spoils that would represent the fact some Turkish tribesmen are joining in the fun for the spoils. Maybe creating a (non-cultural) improvmement in christian cities but useless for the Ottomans so they can sell them.

Some techs should not be tradable. Or you should limit AI to AI trade at least. Gunpowder, Astronomy should not be tradable IMHO.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Indeed putting them in locked war with one of the western Turks would help them spread. About the Balkans their main problem is probably the fact they have to cross at Gallipolli and the AI is usually bad at crossing. Maybe an improvement (with culture) spawning some horsemen in the Balkans called something like Balkan spoils that would represent the fact some Turkish tribesmen are joining in the fun for the spoils. Maybe creating a (non-cultural) improvmement in christian cities but useless for the Ottomans so they can sell them.

Actually, I did not ship one single unit from Anatolia to the Balkans - the starting stack and the Ansars were enough to take over enough to get a second production base in Thrace.

I'll be thinking about filler techs.

 

[Yoda Power]

Actually there already is a Jihad small wonder doing that:/

Btw I meant to say this in my last post but forgot: It stalled for me too, when I tried it. It didn't happen in any of my games. Do you think it's my scenario that causes it, or just civ?

There is one problem making the turks at war with the other turks. There are no more alliances left. I would have to group them with Serbia and Bulgaria, but that might create a very big player for the victory ( I set it to coalition victory, so it was easier to win as the Knights of St John).