The Pyramids--Messed Up Since Civ 1

I think you're missing the point.

The benefit from the Pyramids isn't caused by the Pyramids themselves. (After all the Pyramids are just piles rock. They don't do anything.)

The benefit comes from (and represents) having an early government advanced and powerful enough to be able to pull off such a huge undertaking.

A central government as powerful as early Egypt's was a radical new developement in the ancient world.

It is entirely appropriate that the benefit that goes with them is related to government.
 
cbutcher318 said:
Versailles, these buildings had nothing to do with their effect in the game.

Versailles was the administrative center for the French Empire back before the Frech Revolution. It's affect makes perfect sense.
 
Lithgon said:
Versailles was the administrative center for the French Empire back before the Frech Revolution. It's affect makes perfect sense.

Still, the effect in the game is not the reason it was built in real life. Versailles was built just several miles from the official capital, Paris. Building it in or near your capital in civ doesn't do much. Also, if you were looking to save money by reducing maintenance costs, building a ridiculously extravagant palace probably isn't your best bet.

EDIT: I just looked at civilopedia...it says that maintenance for the palace was 6% of the French national budget....
 
The pyramids were quite a stong symbol of the government. because the government were said to be 'gods' so having these large religious building would strengthen the power of the government.
 
daengle said:
I think you're missing the point.

The benefit from the Pyramids isn't caused by the Pyramids themselves. (After all the Pyramids are just piles rock. They don't do anything.)

The benefit comes from (and represents) having an early government advanced and powerful enough to be able to pull off such a huge undertaking.

A central government as powerful as early Egypt's was a radical new developement in the ancient world.

It is entirely appropriate that the benefit that goes with them is related to government.

Sounds good to me. :goodjob:
 
I'm thinking the Pyramids should do these things as they make more sense in terms of Egypt.

Give your Monarchy without having to research it.
Give you Organized religion without having to research it.
Give you access to Aqueduct and Castle.
Give you State property without Research (everything belongs to the Pharon)
Give you Burocracy. (They wrote thousands of scrolls even for the most simpel stuff)

The penalty is you can't switch from these civis untill you research Free Religion, Free Speech, Emancipation and Unuversal suffarage. So it will be a great boost in Ancient but a drag later on like Real Egypt.
 
But the thing is, this is cIV. Maybe the Mongols or Germans will build the Pyramids. As has been said, these 'super-structures' are game tools; historical accuracy is not the crux of the issue.
 
One thing that was quite relistic in CivIII was the commerce, those great buildings produced after a certain amount of time passed by...
 
Well, the granary effect might be explained by the new-age legends that in pyramids/pyramid shaped buildings an apple will never rot, and poisoned water will be purified by the way that pyramid shape focuses cosmic energy or something...

Just google for "pyramids quackery" or "pyramids razor blade" and you can read all about it.
 
My "realistic" versions of some Great Wonders:

Pyramid: Once you build it, it will automatically build a "mummy warrior" every 5 turns, like that crusader thing in Civ 3. This mummy will lower enemy's defence by 20% by scaring them to hxll. Obsolete after discovery of science.

Oracle: Every 10 turns it will predict an event that will always come true. 80% it will be good for you (e.g. you gain some gold, a city gains population, your enemy drops dead, Catherine wants to sleep with you and diplomacy rating +5), 20% you will be harmed (e.g. Victoria wants to sleep with you).

Hanging Garden: The tiles surrounding the city where it's built will gain some banana or regrow some forests like some men overdosed with hair regrowth drugs.

Hollywood: Create 5 hit movies. You can force other players to accept them. No way to refuse unless they are theocratic or running state-owned economy. By doing so you grab their money, and reduce their research rate by 5% (people getting dumber watching these movies and reading those tabloids)

United Nation: You can declare a war with better diplomatic impact and reduced war weariness. Other than that it's basically useless, and your maintainence cost will increase in order to keep it running.
 
Shouldn't wonders be generating commerce after a certain number of turns..antiquity perhaps??

I think it should depend on how much culture the wonder generates..the more culture, the more commerce..you know tourism, with the player getting a bonus once railroad or flight is discovered (more tourists) and dropping off in times of war.
 
petertr2000 said:
Erm, its extremely well known what Stone Henge is......

A lot of people believe that Stonehenge is some sort of paleolithic calendar or observatory, when in reality it is a collar belonging to the cosmic rabbit that created the universe.
 
guerra said:
I build the Pyramids and the Hanging gardens mostly for the great engineer bonus. I had 2 of those in my capital, and got about 30 great engineers in a game, my goodness was my capital productive!
30 great engineers? I find that rather hard to believe... You were playing Marathon and did not build any other GPP producing building anywhere else in your whole empire? Nor did you have any specialist anywhere? Saying you got a lot of engineers is ok, but saying you got 30 is just stretching it ;)

allhailIndia said:
Shouldn't wonders be generating commerce after a certain number of turns..antiquity perhaps??

I think it should depend on how much culture the wonder generates..the more culture, the more commerce..you know tourism, with the player getting a bonus once railroad or flight is discovered (more tourists) and dropping off in times of war.
Like in Civ 3? :rolleyes:

Imho it wouldn't fit into the 'tight economy' style of civ4. In Civ3 you'd have plenty of cash to spend most of the game, in Civ4 this is offset by inflation and costs to keep your economy afloat (civic cost, distance to capital and all that crap) which makes the game overall a bit harder. (since you have to find a delicate balance of expanding your empire without bankrupting it. Expand too little and the AI will claim all the resources, expand too much and you will be sitting on 50-70% science for the most part of the game, and will hopelesly fall behind in tech.
 
atreas said:
PS. I will never forget a painting from the museum in Cairo: colors are so bright like if they were painted yesterday, and it's 6000 years old. And, of course, the mask is the masterpiece of masterpieces.

It could have been refurbished the day before. :D
 
I had a few specialists in the city, engineers mostly.

I also had a few other wonders, it was something like 70% chance of engineer, 30% chance of scientist.

It was probably about 30. At the very least 25.
 
BasketCase said:
In Civ 3, it added a granary to all of your cities. Serious confusion there.

Maybe the pyramids contained the tombs of pharaohs only as a decoy, to keep pyramid robbers from the real treasure: the hidden chambers of grain.
 
daengle said:
I think you're missing the point.

The benefit from the Pyramids isn't caused by the Pyramids themselves. (After all the Pyramids are just piles rock. They don't do anything.)

The benefit comes from (and represents) having an early government advanced and powerful enough to be able to pull off such a huge undertaking.

A central government as powerful as early Egypt's was a radical new developement in the ancient world.

It is entirely appropriate that the benefit that goes with them is related to government.
Wow, that actually makes sense. I never thought of it that way, but the mystery of the pyramids lies not just in how the hell they built them (we still don't really know), but how the hell they organized the people of their society toward such an incredible task that took lifetimes to complete.
 
Today researches show that there wasn't slavery in acient egypt. I think that cultural bonus is the fittest to reality, but I think that the current bonus is better to the game which is more important.
 
BasketCase said:
And now, in Civ 4, the designers went back to something resembling Civ 1--except, with "government" replaced by the civics model, the Pyramids only give you full access to one of the five civics columns. (By the way, in my current game, I discovered this the hard way, expecting to gain access to ALL civics once I finished the Big Pointy Rocks--and, well, guess what? :) )

I always thought it made perfect sense in Civ1:
Pyramids-->built by Aliens-->advanced technology-->access to all governments/civics.

You don't really think the Egyptians built those, do you?!
 
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