The Pyramids... Wow!

[Adam7Eight]

So, I started a new game- random huge map, random epic on noble- with the Chinese, decided to sacrifice military and growth to go for the Pyramids. Many, many turns later, I finally got it. I'm now researching Currency, and so far I have generated 6 Great Engineers, 2 Great Artists, and 4 Great Scientists all thanks to building the Pyramids. Persia and Japan, my only neighbors on the continent don't stand a chance.

I saved my first 3 Great Engineers from the get go... then boom, rushed the Hanging Gardens, the Great Library, and Notre Dame... then bam, culture bomb, academy, free tech, culture bomb, free tech... you get the idea. I still have 2 Great Engineers waiting in my capitol.

Behold the power of the almighty Pyramids.

 

[panzooka]

ye, also u could get representation in ancient age, and that will take care atleast 6 city's happiness

 

[Tavenier]

5 cities...

 

[Agraza]

depends on map size I think.

 

[DemonDeLuxe]

Especially with a spiritual civilization, the pyramids are worth their weight in gold.

 

[Sybot]

Yeah the Pyramids can be very powerful. Not just for the civics, but also because it provides Great Engineer points that aren't easy to get early on. I was able to get about 10 Great Engineers in a recent game, though it did get a bit boring when I couldnt find anything for them to do. I was able to get 90% of the Wonders thanks to these guys. IIRC, the only ones i missed were Angor Wat, Haga Sophia, Great Lighthouse, and any Industrial/Modern ones (since I won by then).

 

[Bast]

Huh! Why many civs were in your games guys? Because I built the Pyramids too but never saw a single Great Engineer till the Modern Era. But I was playing with 17 other civs and constantly warring and involved in border disputes.

 

[King Ash]

I don't get it either. I play on noble with mostly default settings. When I'm lucky enough to get the Pyramids, I usually also have some "great prophet" wonders as well. This is because in the beginning my capitol is the only city capable of producing wonders quickly.
Anyway I also try to build the Hanging Gardens as well, and I do get a few engineers during the game, but also great prophets and others.

10 engineers? Is that a joke? I guess I'm using my civics wrong or something...

 

[Padmewan]

Watch your specialists and other Wonders; they all generate GPP's and can pop out other GP's. For example, if you build a temple in your Pyramid city, and either you or the AI assigns some priests, you will jack up your chances of creating a Great Prophet. New Wonders will also increase your chance of generating other GP's. So, if you start pumping out GE's with the Pyramid, distribute the Wonders across your cities so you increase your chance of popping out the "right" GP's, accordingly.

 

[MarcAntiny]

also note that he said he was china so maybe he was Mao who is philosophical and gets 100% gp points... which helps early in the game big time and then with the right civics can become absurd as great people start falling over each other... my current game I've gotten 4 engineers, 2 prophets, 2 merchants, and 1 artist so far. I've got the pyramids and I'm using pacifism civic to boost production.

 

[Adam7Eight]

Yep, I'm using Mao. Forgot to mention that. The game has been progressing nicely. I'm getting Great Scientists left and right now. So far I think I've gotten about 8 Great Engineers. Philosophical and the Pyramids is a great combination for sure.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

just to prevent generating false myths...

I'm now researching Currency, and so far I have generated 6 Great Engineers, 2 Great Artists, and 4 Great Scientists all thanks to building the Pyramids.

First, the Pyramids only generate great engineer points, so they won't help you getting great artists, or great scientists (other than contributing 2 GPPs per turn to the city's general GPP pool).

Second, either you have waited with researching currency until 2000AD, or your claim is wrong. You cannot get 12 great people so early. Assuming normal speed, the first great person needs 100 GPPs, then every other great person needs more GPPs to generate (200, 300, ...). With 2 GPPs from the Pyramids, maybe some GPPs from other wonders and two or so specialists (if you had the techs to enable them) and the philosophical trait, you will be able to generate about 10-20 GPPs max at the time you're researching currency. In no way will that give you the number of great people you claimed.

-Kylearan

 

[MarcAntiny]

Hi,

just to prevent generating false myths...


First, the Pyramids only generate great engineer points, so they won't help you getting great artists, or great scientists (other than contributing 2 GPPs per turn to the city's general GPP pool).

Second, either you have waited with researching currency until 2000AD, or your claim is wrong. You cannot get 12 great people so early. Assuming normal speed, the first great person needs 100 GPPs, then every other great person needs more GPPs to generate (200, 300, ...). With 2 GPPs from the Pyramids, maybe some GPPs from other wonders and two or so specialists (if you had the techs to enable them) and the philosophical trait, you will be able to generate about 10-20 GPPs max at the time you're researching currency. In no way will that give you the number of great people you claimed.

-Kylearan

The pyramids themselves would not generate this many people per say however, by giving you the ability to go to representation as soon as it's created you can create great people by using specialists in your cities. Specialist contribute great people points and some buildings increase the % of points in your cities. So I say yes, yes you can have that many great people before currency if you focus correctly and build wonders in your cities. Probably most wonders in your capital. He did not say the pyramids generated all those great people but the ability to change to representation early and other factors contribute directly to the great people results he is stating.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

The pyramids themselves would not generate this many people per say however, by giving you the ability to go to representation as soon as it's created you can create great people by using specialists in your cities.

Representation adds +3 science per specialist and +3 happiness in your largest cities; it won't help you with hiring those specialists. You still need the appropriate buildings like libraries and temples.

So I say yes, yes you can have that many great people before currency if you focus correctly and build wonders in your cities.

No you can't. You are aware of the fact that every subsequent great person needs MORE great people points to generate? The first needs 100, the next 200 etc., and there's a point where the increase in needed GPPs accelerates even more.

It's impossible, plain and simple. Take a look at the wonders available at that time, and remember that you need certain buildings to enable hiring specialists at all. Then do the math.

He did not say the pyramids generated all those great people but the ability to change to representation early and other factors contribute directly to the great people results he is stating.

All the Pyramids do is generate 2 great engineer points. The government civics won't help you generating more GPPs in any way. So even if it is true that he generated 12 great people before currency (which it is not!), the Pyramids wouldn't have anything to do with it.

-Kylearan

 

[panzooka]

while representation doesnt add gp birth rate, it encourages u and your city governor to get specialist, (as they got huge bonus from representation), and each specialist is 2gp point (or 3?? i fogot)

and yes pyramid contribute to great engineer, but birth rate is universal in each city, and so if u have for example oracle in that city, which generates great prophet, by default, it will take 50 turns to generate a great prophet(example only), with pyramid, it takes 25 turns to generate a great person, and that great person have 50% chance being great prophet.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

specialist, (as they got huge bonus from representation)

Yes, a RESEARCH bonus which won't help you getting great people.

and each specialist is 2gp point (or 3?? i fogot)

It's 3 GPPs per turn per specialist. And you can hire how many specialists in ancient times?

and yes pyramid contribute to great engineer, but birth rate is universal in each city, and so if u have for example oracle in that city, which generates great prophet, by default, it will take 50 turns to generate a great prophet(example only), with pyramid, it takes 25 turns to generate a great person, and that great person have 50% chance being great prophet.

*sigh* Believe me, I KNOW EXACTLY how great people are generated. Now please read my last post again. The problem here is that every great person needs more points than the one before. To get 12 great people like the original poster had claimed to have gotten, you need way more than 7800 GPPs altogether (a lot more actually, but I'm not sure at what point the increase in needed GPPs accelerates).

Now to generate more than 7800 GPPs before getting currency IS IMPOSSIBLE. Plain and simple.

-Kylearan

 

[panzooka]

specialist doesnt have to came out from 1 city u know. and i had that many specialist when i was playing philosophal civ
and i didnt said research bonus helps generating gp, i said the bonus will tempt the city governor and u to get more specialist.
currency is not ancient age

 

[wmtrexler]

Don't forget that for some Tech's the first person to discover them gets a free great person. (*goes to check the list*)

First to discover Music gets a Great Artist. This could be done before Currency.

Music -> Great Artist
Economics -> Great Merchant
Physics -> Great Scientist
Fusion -> Great Engineer

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

specialist doesnt have to came out from 1 city u know.

Each city has its own pool of accumulated GPPs, so specialists in other cities won't help (much).

i said the bonus will tempt the city governor and u to get more specialist.

Pray tell, then, how large are your cities while researching currency? How many specialists can you thus hire there? And how many GPPs do you need again for 12 great people? ALL WHILE STILL RESEARCHING CURRENCY?

But I give up now. It's hard to argue with people who won't bother with reading, thinking, or doing some simple math.

-Kylearan

 

[MarcAntiny]

I do believe you can build all these wonders before researching currency as currency is not required for any of them... not including all of the special wonders you can build with religions. Also, you do get great people points with specialists in your city. Also, if you choose caste system which is available after code of laws, which I get free when I build the oracle, you can build unlimited scientists, artists, merchants.
Wonders before currency.
Pyramids, Oracle, Parthenon, Stonehenge, Great Lighthouse, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Great Library, Hagia Sophia, Globe Theatre, Chitchen Itza, Sistine Chapel, Ankor Wat, Notre Dame, National Epic.
So, if you build a majority of these, I've built them all before, and you combine them with representation, philosophical, caste system. You can easily attain 10-12 great people that early. In fact, with the rate of engineers he had, he easily could have done this as his wonders would have been finished rather quickly. Try it sometime, it can be done.