The Quick Noobie Guide to Saving Promotions

[slobberinbear]

Promotions are fun. They make your units more powerful, give some healing, and come with a dramatic drum roll. They're just so doggone great that we want to use them now.

Only you shouldn't just promote automatically, and never ever choose the "auto-promote" option from the game menu.

The times you should always promote as soon as possible:

1. Naval units. Ships can get attacked by barbarian and AI ships from out of nowhere. Better to have the promotion just in case.
2. Garrison units for border cities. You want your key defenses maximized at all times.
3. Your unit is hurt and needs quick healing to continue the assault or avoid dying by enemy counterattack.
4. Your unit has a specific mission and won't be entering combat much(medic, woodsman, etc.).

Otherwise, save the promotion for when you really need it (i.e., right before you attack), which allows you to maximize your odds and fight certain enemy units in the opposing stack.

Here is an example, without Civ math. The results are assumed but not at all atypical:

Player A (agressive civ) always gives his Axemen the City Raider I promotion when built. His stack of 7 Axes shows up at the enemy city and discovers he's against two Protective archers and an axeman on a hill and 20% cultural defense. Because he's already promoted his units with the generic +20% CR I promotion, the AI gets to defend with its best unit every time. In this example, the axeman defender will likely be selected to defend the city against the first attacker. Player A has a poor chance of taking the city with this stack. Why? because he has a 20% bonus (instead of 25% for a specific target) and his bonuses are all the same, allowing the AI to always defend with its best unit.

Player B (same aggessive civ) has the same 7 axes (but hasn't chosen promotions ahead of time) and shows up at the same city. The enemy axeman is selected as the defender.

*EDITED* (Thanks, UncleJJ for calling me on this)

Player B's advantage is that he can tailor his promotions to match the foe. The problem with this mixed defense is that if he chooses Shock, the AI will defend with an archer, and if he chooses Cover, the AI will defend with the axe. What does he do?

1. Choose CR I for Axe 1. The defending axe is still the selected defender. Axe 1 attacks and dies, damaging the axeman.
2. If the defending Axeman was hurt badly, an Archer will be selected as the defender. Let's say the defending axe was only slightly hurt. Choose CR I for Axe 2. Again, the defending Axe is selected. Axe 2 attacks and dies, but the defending Axe is badly hurt.
3. Choose the cover promotion for Axe 3. Axe 3 attacks and dies, damaging Archer 1.
4. The best defending unit is Archer 2. Choose the cover promotion for Axe 4. Axe 4 attacks and dies, damaging Archer 2.
5. The best defending unit is Archer 1. Choose the cover promotion for Axe 5. Axe 5 attacks and defeats the already injured Archer 1.
6. The best defending unit is Archer 2. Choose the cover promotion for Axe 6. Axe 6 attacks and defeats the already injured Archer 2.
7. The last defender is the decimated axeman. Choose the shock promotion for Axe 7. Axe 7 defeats the last defender and takes the city.

Net result: Player B took the city in one turn and lost 4 axemen. Statistically, Player B has a 5% higher strength in the battles involving Axes 3 - 7. While a 5% strength adjustment is not a 5% better chance of success, it is a slight improvement that could carry the day in a close battle. Player B also had the flexibility to turn one of his axes into a medic or to take a Combat II promotion to fend off a chariot counter-attack, for instance.

The moral of the story? Saving your promotions and tailoring them to fit the needs results in better chances of success and lets you keep your options open for later.

 

[UncleJJ]

I have to say I am unconvinced by this arguement A 5% difference between CR1 and shock does not have that much effect. It seems to me that giving all the axemen the CR1 promotion is nearly as good as the shock promotion against the defending axemen (it might take 3 attackers to kill it) and considerably better than shock against the archers (you have a fair chance of a first turn win depending on other bonusses). So I reckon Player A has the best strategy. It is hard to do better than take a CR promotion as long as you are sure you are attacking a city (or fort). Obviously it is useless if you attack another tile or have to defend which is where a more varied set of promotions can be entertained.

Have you actually tried this on World Builder? I am prepared to be proved wrong but my prejudices tell me Player A should do better than Player B.

 

[AnaNg]

It almost seems like the implication is that axemen with CR promotions will just beat themselves on the rock of the defending axeman without damaging him. Is that really the case?

 

[slobberinbear]

I have to say I am unconvinced by this arguement A 5% difference between CR1 and shock does not have that much effect. It seems to me that giving all the axemen the CR1 promotion is nearly as good as the shock promotion against the defending axemen (it might take 3 attackers to kill it) and considerably better than shock against the archers (you have a fair chance of a first turn win depending on other bonusses). So I reckon Player A has the best strategy. It is hard to do better than take a CR promotion as long as you are sure you are attacking a city (or fort). Obviously it is useless if you attack another tile or have to defend which is where a more varied set of promotions can be entertained.

Player A's advantage is that he always gets his 20% bonus as long as he's attacking targets in cities. Player B, for instance, chose shock and then had to fight the archer instead of the axe, and lost the 25% shock bonus because he had to fight an archer. Axe 1 clearly has a better chance of success under Player A's strategy than Player B's.

The difference is what happens later in the combat. Eventually, one type of defender will be eliminated or so injured so that it will never be selected as the "best defender." At that point, Player B can choose the correct promotion to match up against the defender. How big is a 5% advantage? Well, it's 5% from the defender's adjusted strength, which could tip the battle. According to Arathorn's combat guide, anything that gets you over the 50% probability hump is huge due to the way the combat rounds are calculated.

Have you actually tried this on World Builder? I am prepared to be proved wrong but my prejudices tell me Player A should do better than Player B.

No, just trial and error during regular games. I'm not claiming to be an expert in Civ math.

However, thinking it through on second glance, the better strategy would be for Player B to choose generic City Raider promotions until such time as the "best defender" is clearly a particular type of unit, and then choose the appropriate shock/cover promotion.

The point remains though, that it's better to save the promotions. Player B could still choose all City Raider promotions if he wanted (which do, after all, lead to CR II and III, whereas there is no Shock II, etc.).

 

[xanadux]

The intent is good, example not so clear. Here's a little better example:

You attack a city with your 7 axemen which you all gave CR1 promotions. You manage to take the 2 archer defended city losing 2 axemen and having 2 wounded severely. Enemy shows up next turn with a woodsman axemen and 2 horse archers 2 squares away on a road, with a roaded forest between the city and these units, clear terrain otherwise. Now you are in a tight spot ... The next turn, the woodsman axe and 2 HA are going to move onto the forest and the HA attack, and all you have is 3 healthy and 2 wounded CR axes. You can upgrade the 2 wounded axes, but they will still only be health of 3. You may defend the city, but will likely lose 2 axes right away. If the HA wins or withdraws, it will be sitting on a forest guarded by a woodsman axe.

Of course you have 3 healthy axes, but all are CR. You can move one on the forest, probably a good move. AI might attack him, or HA may go around. You might even give 1 of the wounded axes combat 1 and put it on the forest as well. It's a tough situation.

But if the 3 healthy axes had an upgrade available as they should (only the axes that attacked the city took CR before attacking), you can make the odds a lot better. You can take woodsman for one of them and sit him on the forest. You can then take combat 2 for the other 2 to make them better defenders and counterattackers against the HA. With these improved odds, you have a fairly decent chance of preventing those horse archers from either killing 2 axes in the city, or getting the forest square to attack from. A woodsman axe on a forest has a much better chance of surviving 2 HA attacks on a forest than without woodsman, and combat 2 makes a big difference defending the city.

Maybe that isn't any clearer an example, but the point is I think the same as what the OP was pointing out ... You don't want to be stuck with all City Raider units.

With the above, perhaps convoluted example, suppose you knew your target had both horses and horseback riding ... good chance he has some horse archers. It would be a good idea when you attacked the city with the 4th axe, to promote him to combat 2 rather than CR so that after the attack, next turn the formation promotion would be opened up. Of course you should have had a spear along in this case, and if the odds were good, consider using the spearman to take the city to get formation.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm unconvinced too. I tend to leave most of my stack unpromoted (except for a few defenders which get combat promos most of the time), but I always pick CR when attacking a city. Those that survive get CR2 which is just as good as CR1 plus the specific counter (CR2 is +25%).

I will give the counter promos to units in the field about to attack a unit not in a city. [EDIT: And defenders get promos against the most likely counter attacker]. Sometimes I give cover to early axe rushers where all they face is warriors and archers.

I plan on having my CR3 units around well into the gunpowder age when they get upgraded to grenadiers usually. Cover/shock is useless after gunpowder.

 

[slobberinbear]

It almost seems like the implication is that axemen with CR promotions will just beat themselves on the rock of the defending axeman without damaging him. Is that really the case?

You're right, it left that impression. I have edited the post.

CR-promoted units are best used at the start of the fight against a mixed stack of defenders when you can't dictate which defender type will be selected.

 

[slobberinbear]

The intent is good, example not so clear. Here's a little better example ...

Yes, your example is better , and yes, my intent was to show the benefit of waiting to promote. I was wrong about first attacking a mixed-unit defense stack in a city with non-CR units.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I think the moral of the story is: CR troops make lousy defenders so always try and get a few defenders to tag along and finish off stragglers with them so they get appropriate promotions.

 

[oyzar]

much better example is you promote all your axes to CR axes. Then once you enter the enemies borders you get decimated by 6 shock axes.

 

[slobberinbear]

much better example is you promote all your axes to CR axes. Then once you enter the enemies borders you get decimated by 6 shock axes.

Now why didn't I think of that?

Yeah, the point is to maintain flexibility.

Anyone have any other comments about when NOT to save the promotions (at the top of the article)?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Indeed. Not promoting early was what enabled me to make the jump from playing Prince level to finally winning at Monarch. Not that the AI generally attacks with 6 shock axes more like turtles in its cities. My last game I made the almost fatal mistake of accidentally moving just my catapults and trebs to a hill outside Julius' city, moved my grenadiers the wrong way by mistake, and he still ddn't attack And that was Emperor level AI.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Spearmen always get combat promos ASAP for me (or combat + medic).
Defenders (normally 1-2 per stack depending on size) I give at least combat 1 ASAP.
If I park my stack next to an enemy city or stack and have no defenders or not enough I promote a few to counter the most powerful unit.

I never promote siege (warlords btw, pre-BtS nerf) until they need to attack a city. I don't really bother with accuracy which is the only promotion I would have given them before then. Then the first couple get collateral and the rest get CR when they attack.

1 archer in a city gets city garrison always.

EDIT: Machine gun - drill normally, they can't get city garrison.
English longbows/archers - get drill too, as many as possible, they become beasts when upgraded to redcoats. I attack as often as possible with them.
Crossbows I give drill too.

Also, I tend to give cavalry combat and pinch promotions when rifles are nearing the end of their days. A combat 3 pinch cavalry is the only thing that can take out/defend against infantry before you get them yourself. The best time to attack with them is just after the AI upgrades its rifles to infantry since they lose their fortify bonus when upgrading. I have a few withdrawal promoted cavalry anyway to soften up defenders as well. (EDIT: But I only dish out the withdrawal promos prior to attacking since it doesn't work in defence).

 

[ratrangerm]

As far as when not to save the promotions, I'd say this:

Let's say you have your 7 axemen as in the example. Since you know at least one is going to attack the city, give that one the CRI promotion. The other six can remain unpromoted.

When you get to the city, attack first with the CRI axeman. Then judge your other promotions based on the units in the city that remain or are otherwise damaged.

I would also suggest that, when city defenders are damaged and have little hope of surviving, to then give the axemen the CRI promotion. The idea is that these will be the units that you will save to do cleanup duty, in hopes of keeping them alive so they can ultimately be promoted to city attack gunpowder units.

Another example to use a promotion right away is with siege units. City attack really isn't as useful a promotion as cats can no longer defeat units outright, but only cause maximum damage. Thus, I have found it better to use the collateral damage promotion (it's Barrage, right?) right away. Any units that withdraw successfully from combat and earn later promotions can then get the city bombard promotion, and those can be used specifically for stripping away the defense, before other siege units to directly attack and cause collateral damage.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I try to have a Medic Spear and a Shock Axe in the stack anyway for defensive purposes. I could try leaving the rest unpromoted to see how they perform...

This begs the question of Tanks. How would one promote them? Barrage for stackbusting or sacrifice units or CR trying to break the top defender? Maybe Flanking to give them an extra chance to survive a fight?

 

[_Lasher_]

I always save promotions, except for defenders. But that is mostly to distinguish them in a stack, so I wont use them to attack (until the odds are too good and I feel safe).

And I also don't like to give promotions that go obsolete. So most attackers will just get CR and combat promotions.

One thing I have noticed is that when a unit already is eligible for a promotion and it's XP is close to the limit for the next promotion, I try to win the fight without promoting that unit first. That way, if it wins, I can promote it twice in the same turn as the fight and get back more health before any counterattack. This is probably a bug though, since units can not otherwise use XP gained during a turn to be eligible for a promotion in that same turn...
That tactic is not very useful unless he odds are good enough. And increasing the odds before the fight by giving a relevant promotion could mean that the unit wins with more remaining health. But still, I like being able to reward a successful attacker immediately after winning.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I try to have a Medic Spear and a Shock Axe in the stack anyway for defensive purposes. I could try leaving the rest unpromoted to see how they perform...

This begs the question of Tanks. How would one promote them? Barrage for stackbusting or sacrifice units or CR trying to break the top defender? Maybe Flanking to give them an extra chance to survive a fight?

Everything you ever wanted to know about tanks (but were afraid to ask)...

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/tank_warfare.php

 

[lilnev]

Two times when I don't promote before combat: when the odds are already quite good and I want to be able to heal after fighting (as Lasher points out, you can sometimes even promote twice after fighting). This can be huge when you're bleeding a heavily-defended city that you won't be able to take this turn (or hold, so you choose not to take). Say your seige units and initial attackers have left a bunch of defenders, but they're all significantly wounded. Pick off as many as you can at 90%+ without using your promotions. Then give those units CR after combat, and they'll be almost full strength to finish the job next turn.

Secondly, when odds are already ~94-98%, and the promotion would push them over 98%. The slightly lower odds mean you'll get 2 XPs for the kill, whereas at 99% you'd only get one. (Exact cutoff isn't percentage-based -- it's strength-based, ignoring first strikes, and I'm not sure how damaged units affect it -- but 98% is a decent rule of thumb).

peace,
lilnev

 

[DaveMcW]

The really quick guide:

Aggressive civs can use anti-unit promotions when the (healthy) defenders are all the same type.
In all other cases, use city raider.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I thought the DaveMcW quick guide was "cottages"