useless
Social Justice Rogue
I'm pretty sure men can take paternity leave, at least in the UK as far as i know.
The Rights of Men
- Thread starter jackelgull
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jackelgull
An aberration of nature
Is it adequate though?
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Paternity leave is up to 2 weeks. Maternity leave 1 whole year.
The rules are changing at the moment in the UK, but still loaded towards the father working. Mothers automatically qualify for maternity leave or income support, there are a load of conditions attached to the father qualifying for the new Shared Parental Leave.
The rules are changing at the moment in the UK, but still loaded towards the father working. Mothers automatically qualify for maternity leave or income support, there are a load of conditions attached to the father qualifying for the new Shared Parental Leave.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
Men should get more time but women (for obvious reasons) should still have a good amount due to actually, you know, giving birth.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
So... you want men and women to have different legal rights based upon their biological gender?
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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The question then becomes do we view the birth of a child and the resultant leave as a form of short term disability, or do we view it as parenting leave for a newborn? One justifies a discrepancy between the length and types of leave mandated, the other does not. Bear in mind adoptive mothers under the first rationale have a pretty tenuous claim that they should get it too, as in they don't.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
Can cis-men give birth?
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Er... if a tree falls over in the woods and there is no-one aroubd to hear it, does it make a noise?
Why have we switched to asking irrelevant questions?
Why have we switched to asking irrelevant questions?
It's not irrelevant at all. Physically giving birth and being heavily pregnant requires you to take time off work. It's not necessary for the husband to be at home for all of that period, but it would not be healthy for the mother to go to work.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
Exactly, not even getting into the issue of postpartum depression, but you never answered my question Brennan, can cis-men give birth?
jackelgull
An aberration of nature
Wouldn't having another person around to help the pregnant woman ease the burden on her? I mean if the expectant mother has to take of everything herself, it will certainly add more stress.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Oh.. so that was a 'yes'...?
So we can agree that biological differences between the genders are a factor here?
So we can agree that biological differences between the genders are a factor here?
jackelgull
An aberration of nature
There are certain cases where biological factors make a difference, but their importance shouldn't be overemphasized.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
Only in regards to maternity/paternity leave and giving birth.
I havnt been following this part of the discussion as much, but technically is a trans woman entitled to the same rights as a woman? If not wouldnt that be inequality towards trans women?
brennan
Argumentative Brit
What about in child-rearing decisions? I think there's a good argument that women are more likely to be pre-disposed to looking after children in the long-term for example, while men favour being absent from the home bringing in resources.
Yes, but I don't think that's something that necessarily has to be a right enshrined in law - I can imagine some families where (in at least the early stages) they would prefer to have the father stay at work, and making it legally possible to forgo the right risks opening it up to exploitation as people decide that they really need the money, or worry that the boss will think more of people who go without.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
That's a social factor rather than being inherently biological, one that's also changing as more women work and more men stay at home.
Akka
Moody old mage.
That's just a bait formulation.
Let me express it differently :
"Do you want to take into account the physical state of someone ?"
Answer is "yes". When someone is sick, he gets sick days. When someone is young or old, he gets different treatments too.
NEWSFLASH : your physical condition is actually relevant in the world. Paint me surprised.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
No it isn't and can we discuss this without bringing feminist dogma into the discussion, after all we're trying to debate men's rights here from a MRM perspective.
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