The Song of the Moon

[Lunargent]

True, but that doesn't allow population expansion, only population maintenance. You can't process people wastes into more people than you started with without further input. That's as ridiculous as the entire premise of the matrix movies.

Metal carbon combinations, or steel as it's more technically known , wouldn't be as important on the moon. Firstly, because the lower gravity makes it unnessesary for most aplications, and secondly because of the ready availibility of alternatives such as titanium and aluminum, both of which the moon has in spades. Because of the violent processes which created the moon, it is depleted in anything that vaporizes easily, and enriched in anything that doesn't, like the above metals.

 

[Lunargent]

I think boreholes slipped through the cracks. I'll try to figure them out and where to put them. I don't think we have an improvement graphic yet so that might be why I skipped them. I also have a lot of adding of bonuses to mining in the techs. Things like Radar Seismology should give + and so on.

I wouldn't worry about putting in boreholes, since they make little sense for the moon, one of the most geologically dead bodies in the solar system. They made sense on Alpha Centauri because that fictional planet was large enough to have a large store of internal heat that could be tapped, as does the the earth, and to a much lesser extent, Mars.

Although, they could be put in another way, as super deep water wells. What very little water the moon was born with would still be there, waiting to be tapped, deep in the mantle. The crust is very dry, but people have theorized that the mantle could have enough water to make deep ( hundreds of miles deep!) wells for it feasable for an advanced civ.

Such a well could be a national or even world wonder, providing much health to all cities.

 

[tenebreur]

oki thx
i succeeded^^

 

[woodelf]

I was reading up to the point where you were discussing how to get hydrogen on the moon.

You aren't going to find much. Water ice will be rare, and even then, it should only be found in polar craters. The moon was baked dry by the catclysm that created it, which is why it is depleted in volatiles. It's like a giant cinder block.

But there is another, more realistic source of hydrogen- the solar wind. You could build solar hydrogen collectors on tiles that gather the solar wind and concentrate it. The rate of capture would be low, but it's theoretically feasible, and probably how they'll do it for real. Odds are, they're not going to find enough water on the moon to support more than one or two colonies tops.

Combine it with oxygen, and you get water. Nitrogen is still a problem. Future moon colonists will have to rely on imports. Maybe you could have a tech- atomic nitrogen synthesis- that provides alot of health- that uses advanced physics to transmute oxygen into nitrogen. Carbon is also rare on the moon, but the same tech could provide that as well.

Wow, good stuff. We took some liberties with resources, but the tech tree is ever evolving to the point where these ideas of yours are potentially useful.

One important thing the Moon would have over Earth is this magical He3 that contains tons of energy. Any process that would be expensive on Earth might be easier on the Moon because of this almost unlimited energy source. No idea if that's realistic, but it helps me sleep better at night.

And I was wondering when a guy with Lunargent as his nick would show up!

 

[woodelf]

I wouldn't worry about putting in boreholes, since they make little sense for the moon, one of the most geologically dead bodies in the solar system. They made sense on Alpha Centauri because that fictional planet was large enough to have a large store of internal heat that could be tapped, as does the the earth, and to a much lesser extent, Mars.

Although, they could be put in another way, as super deep water wells. What very little water the moon was born with would still be there, waiting to be tapped, deep in the mantle. The crust is very dry, but people have theorized that the mantle could have enough water to make deep ( hundreds of miles deep!) wells for it feasable for an advanced civ.

Such a well could be a national or even world wonder, providing much health to all cities.

Man, more great stuff. Deep Water Well mining sounds like an incredible idea. Admittedly right now we have too much food. Belizan is making it so we are getting immigration (2 free colonists at turn 25 and 75) so the need for early food is lessened and more realistic. With tech we can gain that food! Maybe we should have no settlers buildable until the isolation event?

Go here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3796812&postcount=1886 to talk about helping the settler/food issue.

Keep the stuff coming Lunargent!

 

[woodelf]

oki thx
i succeeded^^

Super! Tell us what you think.

 

[Kael]

I wouldn't worry about putting in boreholes, since they make little sense for the moon, one of the most geologically dead bodies in the solar system. They made sense on Alpha Centauri because that fictional planet was large enough to have a large store of internal heat that could be tapped, as does the the earth, and to a much lesser extent, Mars.

Although, they could be put in another way, as super deep water wells. What very little water the moon was born with would still be there, waiting to be tapped, deep in the mantle. The crust is very dry, but people have theorized that the mantle could have enough water to make deep ( hundreds of miles deep!) wells for it feasable for an advanced civ.

Such a well could be a national or even world wonder, providing much health to all cities.

Holy crap Lunargent, what cant you do?!?

 

[GeoModder]

Combine it with oxygen, and you get water. Nitrogen is still a problem. Future moon colonists will have to rely on imports. Maybe you could have a tech- atomic nitrogen synthesis- that provides alot of health- that uses advanced physics to transmute oxygen into nitrogen. Carbon is also rare on the moon, but the same tech could provide that as well.

Out of hand, I can only see 2 main sources of nitrogen in our solar system: Earth and Titan. I suppose that could be "mined from the atmosphere by cloudscoops ala Hamiltons' Disreality Function trilogy.

 

[woodelf]

Depending on how many biofarms we ended up having you can also get nitrogen through decompossing plants, most notably beans. More for fertilizer and healing the soil though.

I like the idea of cloudscoops, but the Moon has no clouds.....

Maybe the Nitrogen synthesis tech will lead to a building. Now we have some work to do!

 

[matthewv]

Now we have some work to do!

we have always had lots of work to do.

 

[woodelf]

we have always had lots of work to do.

Now we need a plan again. I can think of a few new people who want to help. And with JBG gone for a couple of weeks with just 1 post we need some decisions made. How should we make these decisions?

 

[GeoModder]

I like the idea of cloudscoops, but the Moon has no clouds...

Those cloudscoops would of course have to be put in Earth's and/or Titan's atmosphere. (Earth may not be usable if a nuclear cataclysm happened there, and the risk of a wargerm coming true might be significant as well) So actually it boils down to another national wonder improvement increasing the health.

 

[woodelf]

Those cloudscoops would of course have to be put in Earth's and/or Titan's atmosphere. (Earth may not be usable if a nuclear cataclysm happened there, and the risk of a wargerm coming true might be significant as well) So actually it boils down to another national wonder improvement increasing the health.

That would be a very late wonder after Rocketry or something. A Moon mission to Titan to collect Nitrogen. Sounds like a helluva complex Wonder. Maybe then you'd have a nitrogen resource to trade with other civs.

 

[GeoModder]

That would be a very late wonder after Rocketry or something. A Moon mission to Titan to collect Nitrogen. Sounds like a helluva complex Wonder. Maybe then you'd have a nitrogen resource to trade with other civs.

Basically as the already proposed ice collecting wonder I proposed. Perhaps replace that with the nitrogen. Rocketry... sounds so old-fashioned, why not renaming it advanced spaceflight or advanced spacedrive (fusion spacedrive?)?

 

[Tweets]

Where can I download this mod from? When I click on the link at the top of the OP post, I'm told that the link has expired...

 

[Mr.Earl]

The skimmer units still aren't "in" yet. They're placeholders until we figure out what to do with them. Dust seas shouldn't be traversable, but there was some problems with other variables and we had to toggle a boolean somewhere that now allows movement on certain dust seas. Honestly, now I don't remember what we toggled.....

Thank Goodness! I thought somthing went wrong when I was downloading it!

 

[GeoModder]

Where can I download this mod from? When I click on the link at the top of the OP post, I'm told that the link has expired...

Click on the link in one of Woodelf's posts.

 

[Lunargent]

There are other sources for Nitrogen besides Earth and Titan. Actually, you can get it from pretty much anywhere but the moon or Mercury (though Venus would be challenging), both of which have been pretty much reduced dry slag early in their history (it's thought that a giant impact vaporized the outer layers of Mercury).

Your best bet besides Earth imports, (and politically, that wouldn't fly because it's needed as fertilizer here), would be to mine the asteroid belt or comets. A single comet could provide all the nitrogen and water you'll need for a long time. A project to capture and utilize a comet could be another world or national wonder.

I can see it being either though.

So you could have 4 sources of water:

1.Initial imports from earth to get the ball rolling. Cities should be limited in size due to health concerns if this is all they have though.

2. Rare polar ice deposits that could be traded like any other resource. ( but the AI would prioritize them)

3. A national deep well wonder that provides health for all cities.

4. A world captured comet wonder that provides even more health for all cities. It could provide 4-5 tradable nitrogen and water resources, much like the mines of Dal-Gur in FFH provide iron, so you could profit from the excess as well, or deny it to your rivals.

For nitrogen, you could have the above comet wonder, and an advanced building that can generate it directly, both providing more health.

Culture

I don't think this makes as much sense on the moon as it does on earth. People would, for the most part, be limited to living in the outposts directly. It's very difficult to revolt against a government that controls the air you breathe among other things.

I think each city should get a set amount of culture that allows it to work its fat cross, and stay there at that level. In the case of overlapping cities, it should be whomever got there first takes priority, you can fight over the details if you want a resource badly.

To replace it, there should be an attribute called energy, or power. Certain buildings and terrain improvements such as solar arrays or nuclear power plants would provide this energy, and other buildings, improvements, and units would use this energy. Devoting a certain amount of your terrain to power generation would be essential if you want to really grow. Excess power could be traded away to power short civs, or even beamed to earth for extra income.

 

[GeoModder]

Some of those ideas are already more or less planned to be included in the mod, Lunargent.

Good to see that the ice-asteroid capturing would provide nitrogen. Didn't know those contain that as well.

 

[woodelf]

The v0.15 link might have expired again. And I can't upload very easily.