The Song of the Moon

[joelwest]

I don't know if we should do something about that forcefield and defense base thing that allows you to make your city turn into a regular city or military city.

the turret was intended to be a unique city device. unfortunately the current code allows multiple turrets to be queued up so defeating this intent. (I think you can also add a turret if you capture a city that already has one.)

or perhaps you are talking about the two different versions of the biodome? in that case the problem is that there is no warning that the two can be cycled back and forth forever, hence many new to the mod cycle biodomes for no strategic reason (simply because it is a remaining "unbuilt" structure).

The combat Engineer need to be changed as well, I suggest we should remove the combat engineers so that the workers can at least build all the terrain instead of separating each other, or we can do a quick reformation and be able to allow the combat engineers to build military cities like a settler instead of a worker. Military Bases only build military units and a few special military improvements. The regular settlers should just build citizen Cities to improve economy, research, and other improvements

I believe the intent was for the military engineer unit to be able to do all the things a regular engineer unit can do as well as build forts. unfortunately the current code does not achieve this, so once the forts are built the value of a military engineer goes way down (I seem to remember the only other action it can take is to build roads).

for a more complete discussion of the engineer & military engineer units see posts 846 & 851 on page 43.

 

[joelwest]

Most of the technology in this game have a something resource, which is not in the game, do something about this.

Two great Scientists, what's up with that?

All of the buildings in this game are doubles... please change that!

I believe the double units and wonders and lack of many of the strategic resources only occur if you do not load the moon map. this is an easy mistake to make and in fact is how I first played the mod myself.

however playing off an earth map does have the advantage of enabling the dust sea naval units that never appear on the build list with a moon map. however on every earth map I played the SotM mod on the mod created a golf ball ocean in which it was possible for the lowliest naval unit to cross the ocean since there was never more than a one water tile between land tiles. another problem is that one tile island cities are not ruled out, and the lack of a single amphibious unit makes it impossible to capture such cities.

for a more complete discussion of SotM bugs using an earth based map see post 835 on page 42.

for a more complete discussion of SotM bugs using an Moon based map see post 868 on page 44.

 

[woodelf]

Thanks joel. This is what I need to see so when I do have time I can try to fix some stuff.

 

[GeoModder]

Only 4 buildings, it should be sparse.

I suppose something close to this could be arranged by creating a cityset with four types of structures (buildings) in it, but xml'ing all the slots of the cityset to appear ingame. Mosttimes, the "empty" slots would be loaded, thus showing nothing on the map. Only when one of the structures in the cityset hit the jackpot, it would appear ingame.

It isn't foolproof tho. From top of my head I estimate between 3-6 structures would appear on the map, depending on which leafs the structures where put into (in the cityset .nif file I mean).

Also, I think it is better controllable if the bigger slots from the cityset are used to put the structures in. And of course the odds can be a bit manipulated by the number of times the slot is xml'd to in the civ4city file, for example the park leaf has 3 xml-entries/era in the civ4city, and you can see it appears more then other types of buildings in the Renaissance and Modern cityset.

Two questions:
First, do you want around 4 structures to appear because most of the bases is supposed to be underground, and only airlocks, comm-masts, garages and such are supposed to be seen on the surface?
Second, from what point did you intend to continue the mod? There are several builds on my comp, on different stages of the project.

And an opinion:
I think, since so few units are available and the Moon is such a barren place the mod should be centered upon survival of humanity after some kind of apocalypse on the motherworld.
No need for fancy advanced stuff IMO, just the gritty stages of becoming viable again and perhaps seek out better horizons.

 

[woodelf]

I suppose something close to this could be arranged by creating a cityset with four types of structures (buildings) in it, but xml'ing all the slots of the cityset to appear ingame. Mosttimes, the "empty" slots would be loaded, thus showing nothing on the map. Only when one of the structures in the cityset hit the jackpot, it would appear ingame.

It isn't foolproof tho. From top of my head I estimate between 3-6 structures would appear on the map, depending on which leafs the structures where put into (in the cityset .nif file I mean).

Also, I think it is better controllable if the bigger slots from the cityset are used to put the structures in. And of course the odds can be a bit manipulated by the number of times the slot is xml'd to in the civ4city file, for example the park leaf has 3 xml-entries/era in the civ4city, and you can see it appears more then other types of buildings in the Renaissance and Modern cityset.

I would have to leave all of this in your capable hands.

Two questions:
First, do you want around 4 structures to appear because most of the bases is supposed to be underground, and only airlocks, comm-masts, garages and such are supposed to be seen on the surface?
Second, from what point did you intend to continue the mod? There are several builds on my comp, on different stages of the project.

1 - My thinking is that upon settling the colony with a pop of 1 there should be a miniumum of buildings. A garage, prefab building, comm tower, and anything else. I wasn't thinking so much about underground stuff as the fact that as the colony grew any buildings constructed would have graphics and appear. I have no idea if this is possible after reading your above post, but that's my goal.
2 - I honestly don't know. The last version I have 0.23A sucks IMO. They actually took out some of the units and buggered it up. Any suggestions?

And an opinion:
I think, since so few units are available and the Moon is such a barren place the mod should be centered upon survival of humanity after some kind of apocalypse on the motherworld.
No need for fancy advanced stuff IMO, just the gritty stages of becoming viable again and perhaps seek out better horizons.

So a short 2 era mod? Keep it short and sweet for now?

I can live with that.

 

[GeoModder]

I would have to leave all of this in your capable hands.

I can swing it XML-wise if a city .nif file to the mentioned specifications is put in my capable hands.

1 - My thinking is that upon settling the colony with a pop of 1 there should be a miniumum of buildings. A garage, prefab building, comm tower, and anything else. I wasn't thinking so much about underground stuff as the fact that as the colony grew any buildings constructed would have graphics and appear. I have no idea if this is possible after reading your above post, but that's my goal.
2 - I honestly don't know. The last version I have 0.23A sucks IMO. They actually took out some of the units and buggered it up. Any suggestions?

1. That's certainly possible. I don't know if you ever noticed this in civ, but constructed facilities, especially the smaller ones like workshops and granary's, replace cityset structures once finished. The larger facilities usually spring up on the edge of cities.

2. Mmm, the earliest version I have here is .15 I think... And that was before the python became buggered with all the nifty stuff. I'll try to fire it up and see how it went. As on suggestions, I suggest a real mapscript of the moon, with peaks and hills included.

So a short 2 era mod? Keep it short and sweet for now?

I can live with that.

Yeah, nothing to far-fetched techgeek wise. Keep it reasonable with today's techbase.

 

[darkedone02]

work, work, work, work...

 

[GarretSidzaka]

Garret, do you know how to do citysets like asio did with Lal? Can you take models I've made and turn them into moon colonies?

I have some basic buildings done and I'd love this mod to start with tiny colonies and grow with new buildings.

I can easily do this with the nifviewer. i would essentially "re-bone" the current models with yours, and then delete the old ones.

check the cityset i made (i recommend puting it in SotM and looking at them through the domes). see what buildings you think look lame as reskins, and then we will replace them with your models (i can even help with the skins, if they wrap)

 

[GeoModder]

check the cityset i made (i recommend puting it in SotM and looking at them through the domes). see what buildings you think look lame as reskins, and then we will replace them with your models (i can even help with the skins, if they wrap)

Quite a nice reskin. Congrats on it, Garret.
As on "lame"-looking buildings for a futuristic setting, my view is that all the buildings with a pointed roof fall under it. Those look too retro in my eyes. These are the 1x1_03, the second 1x2_03 and the 2x2_01 building. Btw, did you notice the first 1x2_03 building (the small building with the green windows) never seems to appear in your screenshots? I think there's a bug there that the game can't load 2 structures with the same reference. Do you know if it is possible to rename the reference in the .nif file?

 

[woodelf]

Did anyone else chime in about a public forum?

I've been away for a few days, but I'm back!

 

[GeoModder]

We noticed, GeoSpots suddenly became more abundant in the forum.

 

[woodelf]

Hey Geo, do you want a task?

Do you want to collect all of the potential sci-fi buildings that are good enough for this mod and maybe list what buildings they could be used for?

Also, how much of the tech tree is usable?

 

[GeoModder]

I'll have it finished by Thursday.
(btw, do you know if TheLopez tech editor is in a usable shape?)

 

[woodelf]

I'll have it finished by Thursday.
(btw, do you know if TheLopez tech editor is in a usable shape?)

Cool, thanks.

Has he released the Civileditor thingie yet?

Oh yeah...did you find the version you think we should start from? What should we keep, scrap, or salvage?

 

[GeoModder]

Oh, even more tasks... next weekend is soon enough for you?
Sorry, didn't check out on it yet. Was too tired this weekend.

 

[woodelf]

This mod has sat dormant for a year. Another week won't matter.

TF has agreed that we could have a public forum as well.

 

[darkedone02]

Song of the Moon: Rebirth... Good thing we need a forum, cause we can use it to post a lot of things, suggestions, Ideas, and other misc things.

 

[woodelf]

ALright, TF has graciously given us a public forum located here.

Please help me rebuild this mod with good, doable suggestions.

 

[joelwest]

An opinion:
I think, since so few units are available and the Moon is such a barren place the mod should be centered upon survival of humanity after some kind of apocalypse on the motherworld.

No need for fancy advanced stuff IMO, just the gritty stages of becoming viable again and perhaps seek out better horizons.

this would involve a total rework of the mod. as it stands now FOOD, not barrenness is the dominant theme. as I have discussed previously FOOD springs out of nothingness in this mod althought the AI cannot seem to figure out how to do this.

Spoiler :

as I have also discussed previously the Genetic Screening civic should be adopted on turn one since it enables the eng specialist for every tile without limit. this places the human player at an immense advantage over the AI.

only once it is horribly losing does the AI check out the civics of who is beating it and adopt them.

===========================

the mod originally intended for the break off from earth to be a radical departure. however the first time I played the game, admittedly on a non-moon map, I did not even notice this happen. later plays on the moon based maps were hardly more notable in life before and after the break from earth.

====================

woodelf mentioned (in post 985) "eras" of the game in response to your comments.

the game still has the space race to Alpha Centauri enabled although it does not make any gamesense. if the space race is to be a final era after the break from the earth the space race needs to have Mars, not Alpha Centauri, as its destination.

another idea for a third and final era would be for a building program to make the particular civ on the Moon militarily defensible against attack ala SDI. once defensible the victory condition would be enabled. (this would involve a massive overhaul of the code for the space race.)

the most complex idea for a third and final era that occurs to me is to finally meet the aliens who left the debris behind (goody huts only found on the moon based map). the building program could culminate in a language translator and space port to welcome the aliens. once all the alien welcoming structures and technologies are built the victory condition would be enabled. if an alien era ending is pursued vanilla civ 4's religion could be introduced into the mod earlier in the game as being various sects from various alien races. this would certainly give the game a more sf overall feel.

 

[woodelf]

Please join the forum area joel and help us finish this mod up. I think you've played it more than anyone recently.