Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by LouLong, Mar 25, 2005.
You got my interest! I've always hoped you'd get back to that one.
I've DL'd the Beta. I've been a little busy over the last couple of days, though, and the next day or 2 I'll be busy, too.
Any news on the testing ?
I have found some nice new Chinese buildings that will fit nicely.
I also plan on limiting the areas that can be settled (special terrain).
And I am actively searching for some historical city names, mostly for the peripheric civs (XiongNu, Qiang,...).
I had a little go as the Qin. On the first turn, I declared war on the Wei. Not a very wise move on my part! After a few turns of cities changing hands, peace was declared, and neither of us had made any gains!
Also around the first turn, I declared war on the Shu, who I proceeded to obliterate, due to their no defenders, or units in general, followed by declaring war on the Chu (although they managed to have a few units defending their cities!)
I think the only real major changes that I think are needed thus far are a few more defenders in some of the cities, particularly those cities without defenders in already
sure, sounds like a good idea
Apart from that ? the tech-tree, the balance of units (for instance during your war against Wei) ... ?
@ Topgun69 : did you have a go at it ?
The balance of units in my war against Wei was great! I thought I could take them easily, due to the fact that the only cities that I could see were defended by Chariots, who turned out to be on their own. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that they would have huge reserves of troops just out of site, enough to draw a stalemate!
I did (was a while ago, tho'). I played it for about 10-15 turns and found the map very intriguing. The proximity of the starting locations makes for very interesting gameplay early on.
I am working on it right now but I sure would need some more in-depth feedback (such as later in the game, with tech-tree advances and later units, as well as the general history (civs at war, civs destroyed....)). I test it sometimes but it is difficult to have meaningul infos with just one tester ^^
Hi there, i`ve been around for a while but since i`m quite interested in chinese history i felt it`s time to post
although i`m not sure if this is the right place? since it`s for the reconquista, wich i find also a great scenario
i`ve played a bit as Qin, at emperor level since thats what my qin ruler should become , i came about some trouble...
since Anyi was defended with only a chariot i took the city right away.
jan 403 captured An YI
since Chu has no defenders in Nan Chong i send the Hangzhong spearman to take the city.
jul 403 Nan Chong captured
the Shu troops all started in Sichuan, at turn 2 some of them had moved on and i decided to take them all out, since Shu should be the first to fall to Qin historically.
jul 403 captured Sichuan
i had to rest some of my troops and follwoed the Shu forces to new Sichuan and Sichuan 4
jan 401 Sichuan 4 captured
jan 401 New Sichuan captured
after fending of numerous Wei counter attacks at An Yi (loosing a spearman and a axewarrior) Wei was somehow ready to take peace...
jan 401 Chiang, PingYang, Daling2 captured, i have no idea why they were so gernerous...
since all Shu defenders (2 axeman of theirs were still moving between sichuan 4 and sichuan) were gone i took 3 more citys with the fast chariots.
jul 401 Sichuan 2, NewSichuan4, New Sichuan 2 captured
jan 400 New Sichuan 3 captured, and Shu was whiped out after 7 turns...
meanwhile Yan State founded two new citys, i was moving my troops up to NanChong for the war with Chu was still going on.
397 jan Wan captured, 3 of my chariots were ready to advance further into Chu teritory, but i offered peace and Chu accepted. i could have taken at least 3 Chu citys (tired with Tsai, Souchou and Yingdu) but i decided against it for svereal reasons:
the han were moving between my sichuan citys to capture some babarien camps ( some 8 chaiots and other foot soldiers)
the Zhao, wich were moving north (after i asked them to leave my territory the first place) were moving south again.
in a few turns i had conquered 13 citys and i din`t have the troops to defend them thats why i decieded against taking more of the Chu citys. in the sichuan citys building a spearmans was taking forever...
as well as in the captured Wei citys...
corruption and riots were a big problem... i finally managed to build some spearmans with forced labor, and thus loosing citisens.
in jan 394 Zhao was back, declared war and attacked at Daling 2, i was able to hold them of for two turns...
jan 393 Datong 2 captured by Zhao
jul 393 PingYang capured by Zhao
jan 392 Chiang captured by Zhao
jan 391 New Xiang Yang captured by Zhao
i was not able to defend myself, after loosing at least 6 spearman 5 chariots 2 lords and about 3 archers Zhao still stood before my cities with at least some 15 units...
desperate, my envoy was finally aknoleged and peace was declared in
jan 390, i had to give them kingship wich i had just discovered.
jul 388, the Qin Monarchy was declared
jul 387 Zhou declared war on Han
jul 384 a new city Longxi was founded west to Yung, now under monarchy i have the feeling things got a bit better, more spearmans are produced in the sichuan provinces and the first workers are build there as well.
still corruption is a major problem down there...
maps have been handed over with numerous other nations.
after reseraching 100 scools of thought geting Zhong Henjia and trade for free in
jul 382 field army is errected, causing a crash WonSplash entry in pedia is missing (fixed that with the MAcademy splash)
in the sichuan provinces a few citys are now constructing shrines to spread the Qin culture. in the mainland librarys granarys and now barracks are being constructed.
jan 369 YueZhi declared war on me.
jan 367 the YueZhi are raiding the improvments near Longxi, but with their YueZhi warriors are unable to take the city defended by 2 spearmen.
meanwhile the Han asked me to join in their war against Zhou, but since im occupied with YueZhi i have no interest.
founded another city north of Longxi.
jul 367 YueZhi asked for peace, i accepted and Khotan and New Blonds 2 are now part of the Qin empire because of the peace negotiations.
jul 367 Chu tried to take Wan back and declared war, they lost both chariots.
Zhao demanded Trade, i gave it... by now i`m building infantrie but my forces are still much to low to argue with Zhao, in my viewing range alsone there are 25 zhao chariots not to count the archers and spearmen...
with my 2 infantry armys i went on attack at the Chu
jul 364 Ying captured, the Chu capital moved to Guang Ling ( historical to Souchou, but that city is to small)
jan 363 Zhou and Han made peace, no side was able to take advantage.
jul 363 new yingdu captured, located south of Ying, now with peace i got 155 gold from Chu and Ying Du 2 wich was founded east of Ying.
for now i`ll close.
next time i`ll have to take on Zhao for the humiliating defeat before.
the problem is Zhao has a real strong military... and they are sort of roaming the map, i have zhao chariots west south and north of my teritories.. and even within! since i can´t throw them out risking a war right now...
as conclusion so far i`d say this is great fun
the units so far are good balanced in my opinion, though the Yue Zhi warrior units are a bit weak though numerous....
the infantry so far is great can`t wait to replace the weak war chariots with good horsemen.
the one problem is... too many units..
heres a short list:
han (down due to the Zhou war)
54 Yue militia
73 foot xiongnu
44 YueZhi warriors
so alltogether i`d say there are just a bit many units around....
specially with the xiongnu... when they start attacking with their 4 attack nomads there will not be much left ....
and also with the Zhao, though that may be due to my defeat
the Qiang have still only one city....
and the peace negotiations are far to favorable for me... getting 3 citys while having only captured one?! that speeds the game too fast right at the start.
Thanks a lot.
First sorry again for some of the city names ^^
Second I put defense in every city. I tried to make it easier for the Qin at first but it was too easy so that is changed already (meaning you would not be able to rampage early on as you have ^^).
Third I increased the cost of some of the units, especially for the "not-pure-Chinese" civs. For instance XiongNü or Qiang. The XiongNü strong unit appears less often.
Something that happens in all my test-games so far but does not appear in yours strangely is the fight between Zhao and XiongNü. Normally these two civs have a bitter fight which is why the Zhao are given a strong military at the beginning. And basically you have to keep a low profile with the XiongNü until you have later stronger units.
The map has been changed also. Much more swamps in the South to avoid the build up of powerful civs there (Chu or Yue). I am also trying to create a geographical frontier line preventing the XiongNü from reaching the southern lands, except after they have conquered some key city points/bridges at least.
The battles of that time usually involved very large armies and I intended to give this impression of swarming troops but :
1. maybe I overdid it as you seem to think
2. don't know if it is the reason but the AI have absolutely no respect for frontiers in this scenario.
Are improvements buildable ?
You are right I should start a new thread BTW.... just trying to improve on it as much as possible before releasing the new version.
How about using some Multi Units? That should give off the effects of large armies!
that sounds very good Qin should be the "becoming" super power, but the real conquests should wait until maybe ~350.
i guess zhao was to occupied with me, once they were able to take +4 citys from me (the wei ones) they might have gotten too powerful for Xiongnu to just attack or the other way, they were satisfied and didnn`t want to conquer xiongnu lands...
yes historytells of armys in the 400.000 sizes. like at the battle of Changping
but it is good that you increased some units costs, because having to deal with 25 chariots at once is just
that border problem is constant somehow...
zhao han YueZhi they all move throuh my territory.. i send them out... they come back.. dunno
but i think its the problem with the spawning babarien camps, for the AI seem to go after them with almost all units it has.
as for the improvements, so far all works fine. i`m building guilds now in many citys to boost my tax income.
and expet for the missing won splash for field army nothing was wrong.
armys are produced by that wonder constantly and i put infantry into them.
but what i came about... i have anti feudal tech, so i can build the strong infantry.
now i saw that there is still iron working to research, wich will give me the spear infantry and the swordman. but since the infantry is already so strong i think i won`t build any of theose swordmans, maybe some of the spear infatry as i think they are good against horses...
-maybe there should be some tech line change.. or the swordmen should be put earlier? i`m really no good when it comes to unit balance and that stuff thouh..
jupp, those citys sure have interesting names
but i wonder where you got some of those like Rong Yang BeiQu usw?
i`ve been seraching for warring states maps all over... but every map i find has often modern names, and even citys just disapear or move to other locations
i have also changed your map but not played that yet.
had the same idea, that Xiongnu had to be blocked out of the mainland.
so i created Great Walls (Lm Mountains) with passes that can be defended with fortresses.
added a lot of citys (mostly modern names) and moved many around to better fit the territory maps.
added some more civs to block stelling grounds.
and done some other minor changes.
if you`re interested i could try to upload that so you could compare to your changes.
I am interested
Indeed it is difficult to find proper ancient city names for all the civs.
Some names are actually taken from the later period (Qin and Han empire). This might not be perfect but I am pretty sure most were already in place during the warrings states era.
Normally I find the tech-tree to be the most difficult part of a scenario but in this case it definitely is cities ^^
Good idea of making LM mountains. I still want the XiongNu to be able to reach all lands north of the Yellow River, but through difficult passes seems more like it except for some Qin and Wei holdings. BTW if these 2 are the first line to receive the weight of the XiongNu they have the advantage of copying them to balance that.
Are you German ? (usw = und so weiter ??). Not that it matters !
Thanks a lot for registering just to post in this thread. I feel honored.
The Yuezhi should probably get a cavalry unit. After all they were a white/blond people according to sources and became famous horsemen after being pushed out of the area. And I want them to be able to defend themselves and protect the jade resources.
About frontiers, yes you are probably right. They keep on looking for barbarian settlements. Don't know how to prevent that though... removing barbarians does not seem to work well.
well i think there will be no other way than to take also later city names as you said...
and sometimes the modern name fits as well...
i was searching for the Shu capital name... wich was located at present Chengdu and the wiki told me:
"the Shu king named the new city as "Cheng Du", which means "become a capital"
and later in Han times it was called Yizhou.
so i really think that no one will take offense if the city names don`t always match the perfect time period.
hm never done a tech tree before... i usually go for a scenario map and try to improve it acording history. sometimes i change the building names and pictures to better fit something i intended.
but on units and techs editing i`m totally lost
well i sort of went for historic borders so when the Qin conquered all needed territory they could practically shut the Xiongnu out. maybe thats a bit to protective and should be changed... but on the other hand the Xiongnu can cut through multiple fortresses to attack the mainland.
ah you meant Qin and Zhao? or Yan? course the Wei are not first line to Xiongnu
yes something to protect themselves from the Xiongnu and later the Qin/Han agression. as far as i read about them the past days they were later forced further to the west and stelled so to say along the silk route.
and sure for the jade, the jade pass is not on the map but i also thought of having the most western YueZhi city the acces to the jade resources
i don´t know if babarian camps can be disabled ? but i think i would sure help the gameplay in this a lot... the Ai is more occupied with going after those camps that with planing war...
öhm, damn "usw..." yeah german sometimes in writing i just fall back to it ....
well as i downloaded i saw the date of the 3d upload
and since i`m really interested in chinese history i thout better give it a try and post before this great idea goes under.
so hope no one minds my bad spelling...
btw as i went on with the game...
there is really need for some corruption decreasing building more early i`m still before beurocraty and the southern citys... well i sort of can´t really use them taking 40 turns for a simple shrine... and i`m at monarchy...
tried to switch to confusianism but i havent checked for the unit etc costs and by minus 125 gold /trun i had to go back to monarchy
i`m using the terrain of the rhye`s of civ mod.
the LM mountains look like big plataus, so they suite quite ok for the walls.
for my map version you`ll need these two files
View attachment Volcanos.PCX
View attachment resources.pcx
a changed resource to indicate the Great Walls, i copy pasted the great walls LM terrain there.
and a changed volcano tile, copied that from GlC i think, now the Volcano terrain is the only settable land, thus i get the citys where i like them to be and restrict settable land in a large scale.
and the biq
View attachment TianXianew1.zip
some of the changes:
-added LM Mountains to serve as Great Walls foundation, impassable
-added walls with the wall resource on the LM mountains, should be connected to a certain tech and could create a special fortress improvement. walls are: Qin, Zhao and Yan
-added great walls resources for Qin dynasty and Han dynasty, these close the gaps in the older walls.
to see wich wall starts ends where you`ll have to check the resources on the map.
note: the LM walls are only used as the later border walls to the north, the great walls between the states are represented by fortresses only.
-added more rivers
-added and moved citys to fit the territory borders
Donghu north east, at war with Yan
Yu Yue replaces DongYue, the Great Yue were the tribe that occupied the land east of Chu, capital was Kuechi during the warring states it is Wu.
as filler civs for the settling grounds:
Dian, south west corner
Nan Yue, south center
Min Yue south east
-the Qiang now posses sort of a mountain fortress... i blocked the territory with mountains and the passes with a giang mountain guard (high defence)
so they could stay a thread throughout the game and can`t be conquered.
this map is sort of a raw model, many citys are just placed to see how the other would fit in etc. for an actual game some of them should be taken out i guess. since Chu now has 13 citys and Zhao only 7.
haven`t done anything to the resources exept the great wall version.
haven`t changed number of units, exept for basic defence.
hope this can be of use to you somehow
hm... volcanos can`t be turn off eh?! i thought they would go like black death and stuff.. so my stupid idea with the volcano terrain for citys won´t work...
expet the volcano erruption rate could be set extremly low?
hm since that volcano thing just won´t turn out...
-changed settable land to floodplain only (marked by a ressource)
-placed jade in the west corridor
-added tea in sichuan and yunnan area (wiki tells thats the origin of the tea plant)
-added steppes (lm plains-food 1, shield 1, trade 1; no improving) so the xiongnu won`t cultivate all of what should be "waste" land.
still have to check if there is enough cultivation land to have a moderate city size though.
-placed a Xiognu forbidden palace, not quite sure about that... but intention is to have two xiognu citys protected by max defend units that can´t be conquered. so xiongnu can´t be whiped out.
-added rice (bonus food) to replace wheat in the southern map
what other ressouces did you plan on LouLong?
the new biq
View attachment TianXianew1.zip
Well, I am not really in favor of multiplicating the Yue civs...
Steppes soud nice.
I am gainst rice and tea because they were not really used back then. The early Chinese civ is based on wheat, not on rice. It could hoever appear late in the tech-tree.
I like your corridor idea (silk road) but even if the Eastern part of my map is far from perfect I think you overdid it a bit...
Volcanoes were indeed "komisch" ^^
i divided the tribes because of the unsettled land in the south...
historic there should be a lot more but i get the point in having to many civs around...
i actually divided the tribes because i had another map reaching all south to the leitschou peninsula, so the nan yue ( in the south provinces and north vietnam) and the min yue (south east coastal and inland) were needed to fill the space
but i still think at least 2 yue tribes would be good main reason for this
would be historical, because of the diversity of the Yue tribes ( the hundred Yue) and the fact that Chu conquered the YU Yue tribe, east to its territory (capital at Wu).
the nan Yue were conquered by Qin after the union of china, and the Min Yue tribes were still opponents to the Han Dynasty.
as well since setllers are spawned by the palace, wich i think is a superb idea!
the more tribes there are the more land will be settled before the Chinese states can bring their settlers down.
well rice was large scale cultivated in southern China around the 3000 B.C
the wild rice itself was cultivated around 7000 B.C
i go dacore when you say that the Chinese civs base on Wheat, but as i said rice is the equivalent to wheat, only in the south.
so wheat will be the bonus food ressource, say north of the jangste, and rice will be the one south from it.
as for tea... that could be argued i guess, tea was known well before the warring states, in han times it was used for medical purposes, in the early centuries AD it became a common drink.
the origin is supposed to be sichuan and yunnan provinces. so i placed tea only down there. so the warring states would not be "tea lands" but get sort of introduced to it when the south west corner is conquered by the Qin.
if tea as luxury resource just won`t fit in it could still be a nice bonus ressource for that area down there.
well the corridor, with the LM walls was made for the larger map wich had the silk road up to yumen (the jade town) and the later han empire (wich would have conquered all of the map exept the xiongnu)
when cutting with the Qin dynasty those lm walls should be out again. the qin never had real control on that land. still if the player wants to control it there could be a bit more desert so a larger line of fortresses would do the job as well.
the jade should still have its only acces at the last of those citys to the west i think.
the eastern part? you mean the Donghu and the Yan conquest? well i`ve tried a few turns on that map and the donghu were conquered by yan pretty fast the intention was that the other civs like Qi or zhao wouldn`t settle those lands... but like this Yan gets to powerful too fast.
as for the volcano thing well i somehow tried to restrict setlleing so i won´t see dozens of settlers walink criss cross on the map like they always do...
i didn´t know that volcanos are hardcoded and can´t be turned off...
but i`ve treid now with the floodplains (since there is originally only some in the ordos area) and it works out fine in my opinion.
one thing thou, i have to delete some of the placed citys, so the Chinese states would settle their "mainland" first and the lesser tribes in the south have more time to build up and block the settling tiles.
for the xiongnu i added more desert terrain wich gives them sort of a desert fortress that can`t be reaced by others all in the north of the map.
now the chinese can conquer and raid xiongnu citys near to their "mainland" but the real north will stay under the nomads control.
another thing that could work fine are some hidden nationality units for xiongnu and qiang? so they can capture workers or even citys without declaring war. this would give an even greater danger to the chinese civs and thus grant the importance of the securing walls.
why are you all talking about
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