The Supremes Open The Door To A Theocratic America?

[warpus]

And when you get an additional 10% of students, you must scale the system up 10%. Either way you play with the cars you're dealt. Also, this is pretty bizarre logic you're using. Why can't you scale back 10% of your teachers and administrators if you lose 10% of your student body? This is how cities like Detroit and Buffalo have been functioning for decades now.

That's just how large-scale systems like these operate.. Be it economies of scale or something like universal healthcare. Take that as an example - the reason it works so well here in Canada and why costs are relatively low is because everyone participates. If people could opt out, the system would suffer. The same is true for public education.

 

[JollyRoger]

Well it is not like the courts have ever over stepped their mark. The most famous one is the Dred Scott case. Also there is Plessy v Ferguson.

Yeah, and this case is the latest of Supreme Court overstepping. Denying taxpayers the opportunity to be heard on the merits regarding a potential Constitutional violation.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

That really has nothing to do with it. This is just an absurd red herring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish

Nobody is exempt from paying taxes based on whether or not it is against their religious beliefs. If that were true, there would be a lot more members of pacifist religions just so they wouldn't have to support American warmongering.

Hey there pal, you just verified that the Amish don't pay taxes because of their religious beliefs.

Red-herring what now?

 

[BuckeyeJim]

That's just how large-scale systems like these operate.. Be it economies of scale or something like universal healthcare. Take that as an example - the reason it works so well here in Canada and why costs are relatively low is because everyone participates. If people could opt out, the system would suffer. The same is true for public education.

Economies of scale? The bigger the better? I guess it's time to resurrect the Vanderbilt's and bring back Standard Oil.

Just because things are bigger doesn't mean that they are better. Government malfeasance is also much harder to correct than a monopolistic empire in the private sector. So pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical. I've always been under the impression that the Canadian healthcare system is cheaper, (in some cases better, and in some cases not), because of government price controls.

 

[JollyRoger]

Just because things are bigger doesn't mean that they are better.

I guess it's the motion the the ocean, huh, BJ? If you ever go on the DL, you may change your outlook.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Hey there pal, you just verified that the Amish don't pay taxes because of their religious beliefs.

Nope. I just showed they were finally rewarded with a special exclusion by the federal government because they refused to collect any benefits from such programs for decades, so they government rightfully felt they should not have to pay for programs which they obviously did not receive any benefits.

Bringing them up in this thread as you did is a clear red herring. The Amish have always paid their fair share of taxes for public schools, just as they did for Social Security for decades and still do for the military, even though they are adamantly pacifistic and even refuse to serve.

I think being opposed to public education to be a reprehensible position no matter the reason. People in the US have always had the option to send their children to private schools despite your insinuations to the contrary that people are trying to stop them from doing so. But that shouldn't ever relieve anybody of their responsibility to educate all the citizens of this country in a fair and equitable manner by paying their fair share of the taxes for such programs. I think it is a patently absurd and completely indefensible position to claim otherwise, especially given that most people who are opposed wish to do so by religiously indoctrinating the children at the same time.

I think the only way we are going to ever "cure" the rampant provincialism in this country is to educate the young far better than their parents ever were. I seriously doubt that will ever occur with fundamentalist Christian schools which are specifically created to do just the opposite. While people should always have the right to raise their children as they wish, I also think they certainly shouldn't ever have the right to indoctrinate anybody else in a similar manner.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Nope. I just showed they were finally rewarded with a special exclusion by the federal government because they refused to collect any benefits from such programs for decades, so they government rightfully felt they should not have to pay for programs which they obviously did not receive any benefits.

I agree, hence why Public School should not exist. Instead, everyone should receive a grant of money with which to send their child to any school they want (If they homeschool their child, they can keep the grant, but not if the kid drops out or something.)

I think being opposed to public education to be a reprehensible position no matter the reason. People in the US have always had the option to send their children to private schools despite your insinuations to the contrary that people are trying to stop them from doing so. But that shouldn't ever relieve anybody of their responsibility to educate all the citizens of this country in a fair and equitable manner by paying their fair share of the taxes for such programs. I think it is a patently absurd and completely indefensible position to claim otherwise, especially given that most people who are opposed wish to do so by religiously indoctrinating the children at the same time.

Basically "Send them to religious school if you want, but you also have to pay for my kid's secular education?"

Just because something is "Secular" doesn't make it good.

I think the only way we are going to ever "cure" the rampant provincialism in this country is to educate the young far better than their parents ever were. I seriously doubt that will ever occur with fundamentalist Christian schools which are specifically created to do just the opposite. While people should always have the right to raise their children as they wish, I also think they certainly shouldn't ever have the right to indoctrinate anybody else in a similar manner.

And what will you do to parents who "Indoctrinate" their children? And how do you define that word anyway?

 

[civ_king]

I agree, hence why Public School should not exist. Instead, everyone should receive a grant of money with which to send their child to any school they want (If they homeschool their child, they can keep the grant, but not if the kid drops out or something.)



Basically "Send them to religious school if you want, but you also have to pay for my kid's secular education?"

Just because something is "Secular" doesn't make it good.



And what will you do to parents who "Indoctrinate" their children? And how do you define that word anyway?

Objection, the greater glory of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics far outshines the dim light of stupidity and religion. The single light of science shall burn away the darkness of religion.

 

[BasketCase]

The Republicans and religious right would like it if America was (even more of a) theocracy

Bullcrap. Bush had the chance to do exactly that. For six years. He had both houses of Congress in his pocket.

He had the chance, and he didn't do it.

few people in the GOP want a Theocracy, the Constitution party are the Theocrats.

And the Constitution Party, thankfully, only got 200,000 votes in the 2008 elections. In a nation of 300 million people. Far better performance than the three Socialist parties on that ballot, who, combined, only got six THOUSAND votes.

 

[timtofly]

The Supremes Open The Door To A Theocratic America?

I would have to say that would be a religeous or superstitious America; not Theocratic. Is it possible to change the anthem to "The seperation of God and State"? That would be more in line with an accusation of a "Theocratic America" being forced upon US. Unfortunetly, (for secularist) America was founded in a era when GOD was still honored. Jefferson's pledge to the "IFB" was that the United States would never force religion onto it's citizens and that every one could have freedom to believe what they felt right conscientiously. While you may feel that paying taxes is forcing you to support a religious activity, I am sure that your money is not ear-marked for that manner. If you think that this is a trend, then I would have to join in your fears. I am sure the Islamic community would love to see their religion become widespread and government sponsered. If you think that they have come to America, just because it has freedom of religion, you are naive. They already have a majority influence in Africa, The Middle East and Indonesia.

It seems to me that Africans seem to be a spiritual group. It is their congregations that have boosted the careers of many politicians. Does that trend bother you? Secularist, athiest, socialist have the freedom to exercise whatever belief system they want to in America. If there is any phobia on my part is that the trend is away from freedom and towards totaliatarianism. Freedom has made the church apathetic and weak. The church has outlasted religion, hedonism, communism, socialism, and even capitalism. However, if you think it will destroy freedom then so be it.

 

[MobBoss]

The Supremes Open The Door To A Theocratic America?

I would have to say that would be a religeous or superstitious America; not Theocratic.

To counter, I would humbly submit that anyone that seriously worries about America becoming a theocracy is part of a overly suspecious or paranoid America. 'Cause it just aint going to happen.

 

[JollyRoger]

To counter, I would humbly submit that anyone that seriously worries about America becoming a theocracy is part of a overly suspecious or paranoid America. 'Cause it just aint going to happen.

Preach that to the Okies and others with an irrational fear of Sharia Law.

Or those irrationally fearing that Britain has adopted Sharia Law:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=291331