The Supremes Open The Door To A Theocratic America?

Formaldehyde

Both Fair And Balanced
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
33,999
Location
USA #1
High Court OKs Ariz. Tax Credit For Religious Schools

Spoiler :
A deeply divided U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday that taxpayers have no legal right to challenge a tax break worth millions to donors supporting private religious schools. The 5-4 decision left intact an Arizona tax subsidy that was enacted because the state constitution forbids direct aid to religious schools.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the five-justice majority, said that taxpayers may challenge a direct legislative appropriation for religious schools, but not a tax credit.

Arizona is one of many states that have a state constitution barring direct aid to religious schools, including vouchers. These provisions date back more than a century.

To get around the ban on vouchers, Arizona enacted a law that allows residents to take a tax credit for money given to private school scholarship funds known as "school tuition organizations."

A tax credit is different from a tax deduction. The credit comes directly off the tax bill on a dollar-for-dollar basis, so a $500 donation to a school tuition organization allows the donor to take $500 off his owed taxes. In contrast, a charitable donation of $500 to a private school would be worth no more than one-third of that amount in tax deductions.

Under the Arizona law, more than $50 million was donated annually to student tuition organizations, which, in turn, directed the money to private schools, at least two-thirds of them religious schools.

A group of taxpayers challenged the tax credit in court, contending that it amounted to an unconstitutional state subsidy for religious schools.

But on Monday, the Supreme Court ruled that the taxpayers have no legal right to bring such a challenge.


Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the five-justice majority, said that taxpayers may challenge a direct legislative appropriation for religious schools, but not a tax credit. He conceded that a tax credit and a direct government expenditure "may have similar economic consequences," but he said a tax credit is different because any injury to the disagreeing taxpayer is "speculative," and the money is directed by private individuals, not the state.

Reaction To The Ruling

Civil libertarians reacted to the decision with dismay. Arizona State University law professor Paul Bender, who represented the Arizona taxpayers, says the court's opinion defies reality.

"The state has a budget deficit of a billion dollars, so when $100 million doesn't come into the Treasury, the rest of the state's taxpayers have to make up for that," he says. "The idea that [the tax credit] doesn't affect the rest of the state's taxpayers is just fantasy."


But school choice advocate Timothy Keller, of the Institute for Justice, says that "only looks at one side of the ledger," adding, "It is much more cost effective to educate children in private schools."

Justice Elena Kagan, in a blistering dissent — her first dissent since joining the court — said Monday's decision "devastates" the ability of taxpayers to challenge government actions that favor religion.

In reality, she said, there is no difference between a tax credit and a direct appropriation. "What is a cash grant today can be a tax break tomorrow," and the court's decision, she charged, "offers a road map — more truly, just a one-step instruction — to any government that wishes to insulate its financing of religious activity from legal challenge."

Impact On Church-State Separation

Monday's ruling follows a 2007 decision that barred challenges to President George W. Bush's faith-based initiative because it used discretionary funds in the executive branch. Civil libertarians suggested on Monday that the ruling in that case, combined with the Arizona ruling, has the effect of eroding the constitutional separation of church and state.

But Stanford University law professor Michael McConnell says these decisions "probably [do] not change the ultimate outcome of any cases," given the current Supreme Court's more accommodating view of church and state.

Dismissing the challenges on the basis of legal standing, rather than on the merits, he says, "just means [the cases] are going to be resolved at a slightly earlier stage in the litigation."

University of Michigan law professor Douglas Laycock isn't so sure. He argues that the ruling opens another — and more politically appealing — avenue for legislators to support religious schools.

Although the Supreme Court upheld school voucher programs nearly a decade ago, he notes most states have not adopted voucher programs because they cost the state money.

"It is mostly Republicans who support these aid-to-religion programs, and Republicans don't want to raise taxes to pay for vouchers," Laycock says. "But if they can do it through a tax credit, they can support religious schools and claim it's a tax cut all at the same time."

School choice advocate Keller may not agree with that characterization, but he does agree that Monday's ruling will "embolden" other states to take similar action.

Indeed, he says, eight states are actively considering similar laws. Six, in addition to Arizona, have already adopted them
.

St Pete Times Editorial: Diverting taxes to church school

Spoiler :
By Robyn Blumner, Times Columnist

James Madison would be rolling over in his grave if he knew that his magnificent thesis on why the government should never be allowed to direct financial support to religious education was twisted to undermine future such claims.

In a 5-4 ruling Monday, conservatives on the U.S. Supreme Court barred taxpayers from challenging an Arizona tax credit scheme designed to divert public money from state coffers to religious schools. The ruling effectively eliminates taxpayer standing in federal court to challenge even the most blatant and discriminatory government support of religion, when it's done through the targeted use of the tax code.

I can almost see Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas — who are religion-by-the-sword types at heart — dancing a little jig as they slam shut the courthouse door to church-state litigants, while opening the public fisc to religion.


The only bright spot was a vigorous dissent, that was part history lesson, delivered by Justice Elena Kagan and joined by her other three liberal-wing colleagues. Her discussion of Madison decimated Justice Anthony Kennedy's majority ruling that claimed the founding father's writings support his view: that the Constitution only limits government's direct expenditures for religion, and not the use of targeted tax benefits that accomplish the same goal.

The case of Arizona Christian School Tuition Organization vs. Winn challenged an Arizona private school tuition program that gives taxpayers a dollar-for-dollar state income tax credit of up to $1,000 per couple when they direct donations to privately run "student tuition organizations." Those organizations then use the diverted tax money to fund scholarships often exclusively at religiously affiliated schools. One such STO says its program goal is "to further Christian education ... for the benefit of Christian school students and their families."

Since its inception in 1997 more than $350 million in tax money has been diverted from the public treasury, with one STO urging donations with this come-on: "imagine giving (to charity) with someone else's money. ... Stop imagining, thanks to Arizona tax laws you can!"

What makes James Madison relevant is that Arizona's program is similar to one proposed in Virginia in the 18th century that Madison — who is known as the architect of the Constitution's religion clauses — forcefully denounced. Madison's famous Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments railed against a proposed tax levy to aid teachers of Christian religion.

Kennedy claims that Madison's Remonstrance was only concerned with government extracting and spending money for religious activities in violation of a taxpayer's conscience. But as Kagan points out, the Virginia proposal looked more like the Arizona model: Taxpayers were to direct their payments to Christian societies of their choosing. Conscientious objectors could opt out of subsidizing religion entirely and have their funds directed to a proposed common school fund for the support of general education.

Even with this accommodation to nonbelievers and allowing each taxpayer to choose according to his religious conviction, Madison called the scheme "a dangerous abuse of power," and a form of compulsory religious contribution. It never passed.

"(T)he Virginia Assessment is just like the Arizona tax credit," Kagan writes. "Although both funnel tax funds to religious organizations (and so saddle all taxpayers with the cost), neither forces any given taxpayer to pay for the subsidy out of her pocket."

But because of this feature, Kagan continues, the court's majority says that taxpayers have no injury and therefore no standing to sue — even as Madison saw great harm.

The consequence of the court's ruling, as Kagan suggests, is that it gives legislatures a "road map" to insulate the financing of religion from court challenge. She offers extreme examples, such as a state choosing to reward Jews for their piety to the tune of $500 per year, to be claimed on their tax returns in lieu of an annual stipend. Or a state subsidizing the ownership of crucifixes by authorizing a tax credit equal to the price paid.

Does it really matter how this kind of support is structured? Of course not. But that truism will have to wait for a more intellectually honest court — one that actually values Madison's vision.
I am appalled that conservative states are deliberately destroying the separation of church and state through the use of underhanded tactics such as this to sidestep their own laws. That they have apparently been doing so for over a decade now. And that the Supremes seem to have now eliminated any possible challenges against them in the foreseeable future.

If the Christians want to create their own "madarassas" in the US, they should have to pay for them out of their own pockets. I think the time has come to eliminate all tax breaks for any sort of religious purpose.

Once this current wave of reactionary control of the Supremes has finally ended, we need to consider a constitutional amendment to specifically demand a permanent separation of church and state. The concessions made in the original Constitution to get the more fundamentally religious states to join the union have created far too many loopholes and inconsistencies in our laws.
 
Isn't this ignoring Lemon v. Kurtzmann where the SC ruled that state funds could not go to religous schools except for explicitly non-religous purposes such as reduced fee lunch?
 
So should Christians that want to create their own madrassas have to pay for the public school that they don't want to use and will never benefit from, and then also pay for the madrassa as well?

Many people see it as the reverse Formaldehyde, the government using underhanded tactics to sidestep the will of the people and force them into government run schools. They feel it's unfair that they should have to support public schools, that to them are under-performing, that inhibits their ability to send their kids to the school of their choice. They view the taxation process as a means of corralling underprivileged and middle class students into the same monopolized system, whether their parents like it or not. By manipulating the tax code, the government dictates decisions that should be made within the home, not in the statehouse.

One way of looking at this as not a tax break, but a tax refund. The people paying the taxes getting an equal of choice.

This law isn't forcing requirements or the will of anyone upon anybody else. It's promoting free choice. How could anybody possibly decipher this as a bad thing? Ya know, multiculturalism and all.

Does the separation of church and state have any bearing on state government anyway? I believe this falls under the realm of pure state law.
 
If you want to indoctrinate your children, do it on your own dime instead of mine. We need less ways for provincial conservatives to cherry pick which federal and state programs they want to support by paying even less taxes than before, not more.
 
So should Christians that want to create their own madrassas have to pay for the public school that they don't want to use and will never benefit from, and then also pay for the madrassa as well?

Yes, and the same for other religions.

Religious schooling has perpetuated divisions e.g. in Northern Ireland.
 
Does the separation of church and state have any bearing on state government anyway? I believe this falls under the realm of pure state law.

Yes. It's been incorporated.
 
If you want to indoctrinate your children, do it on your own dime instead of mine. We need less ways for provincial conservatives to cherry pick which federal and state programs they want to support by paying even less taxes than before, not more.

I don't think you're following the point very well. So let's play flip-flop. If you want to send your kid to a public school, do it on your own dime instead of mine. I mean this in a purely theoretical sense as I will likely send my kids to public school when the time comes ;) . But many people who don't want to send their kids to public schools, and who don't want to financially support the public schools, are being forced to support the public schools that you desire against their will. So you see, this is a sandpaper, that if sped up to fast, will burn the grain in both directions.

Would you agree with a system such as this:

If you want to send your kids to a religious school, or any private school, you can sign up for a waver where you can get your local taxes refunded to you, and obtain a waver on the property taxes that would have gone to funding the local public school, that way the money never reaches the hand of the local government, and therefore cannot be construed as supporting a religious institution? The public money that makes it into government would result money only going into the public school. The religious people who want to send their kids to parochial schools would have more money to send their kids to the private institution. Everyone is happy, and nobody is jealous. What do you say?

EnglishEdward said:
Yes, and the same for other religions.

Religious schooling has perpetuated divisions e.g. in Northern Ireland.

You should be careful around these parts. The multiculturalism people will have your neck for comments like this.

Speaking of which, Formaldehyde, don't you support multiculturalism?
 
High Court OKs Ariz. Tax Credit For Religious Schools



St Pete Times Editorial: Diverting taxes to church school

I am appalled that conservative states are deliberately destroying the separation of church and state through the use of underhanded tactics such as this to sidestep their own laws. That they have apparently been doing so for over a decade now. And that the Supremes seem to have now eliminated any possible challenges against them in the foreseeable future.

If the Christians want to create their own "madarassas" in the US, they should have to pay for them out of their own pockets. I think the time has come to eliminate all tax breaks for any sort of religious purpose.

Once this current wave of reactionary control of the Supremes has finally ended, we need to consider a constitutional amendment to specifically demand a permanent separation of church and state. The concessions made in the original Constitution to get the more fundamentally religious states to join the union have created far too many loopholes and inconsistencies in our laws.

Maybe 'separation of church and state' isnt what you think it was....

And before you start labeling them 'madrassas' and flinging names, did you ever consider actually looking the school up and seeing if its a nice, well run school or not?

Its 'Freedom of Religion'....but you seem to want 'Freedom from Religion'. :lol:
 
Maybe 'separation of church and state' isnt what you think it was....

And before you start labeling them 'madrassas' and flinging names, did you ever consider actually looking the school up and seeing if its a nice, well run school or not?

Its 'Freedom of Religion'....but you seem to want 'Freedom from Religion'. :lol:

Yes, I thought the separation of church and state meant the government staying out of the religious business of the people. Not taking money from them to inhibit their ability to attend religious institutions and corralling them into a monopolized government institution, which simultaneously empowers the rich, and perpetuates the oligarchy/hegemony of America.
 
Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the five-justice majority, said that taxpayers may challenge a direct legislative appropriation for religious schools, but not a tax credit. He conceded that a tax credit and a direct government expenditure "may have similar economic consequences," but he said a tax credit is different because any injury to the disagreeing taxpayer is "speculative," and the money is directed by private individuals, not the state.

I totally find this statement appropriate. Seriously. Donating money to a non-profit cause and then taking it as a tax deduction is done all the time in the name of many things that aren't even mentioned in the Constitution (planned parenthood, after school sports, math education, cancer research, etc...) so why get upset if it's a religious-based education and claim that it's leading to subversion of secular authority when the secular authority is granting that right?!??!?!?!?!?!?

If there's negative economic effects on tax revenue, then government should limit or eliminate the tax deduction concept broadly, not allow/disallow it because someone else doesn't like <insert creed, color, etc..>.
 
I don't think you're following the point very well.
I follow it quite well. Every single civilized country in the world has a public education system. I really don't wish to take a giant step backwards to the days when schools were segregated based on race to one where they are segregated based on an even more preposterous scheme.

You shouldn't expect taxpayers to help subsidize your propaganda efforts.
 
IIRC, one of the main things going for it is that the law is not inherently religious--it's for any private school. Granted the main effect is funding for religious schools, but any school can take advantage of this.
 
I don't think you're following the point very well. So let's play flip-flop. If you want to send your kid to a public school, do it on your own dime instead of mine. I mean this in a purely theoretical sense as I will likely send my kids to public school when the time comes ;) . But many people who don't want to send their kids to public schools, and who don't want to financially support the public schools, are being forced to support the public schools that you desire against their will. So you see, this is a sandpaper, that if sped up to fast, will burn the grain in both directions.

Public schools benefit the entire country. Religious schools only benefit a subset of the population.
 
Maybe 'separation of church and state' isnt what you think it was....

And before you start labeling them 'madrassas' and flinging names, did you ever consider actually looking the school up and seeing if its a nice, well run school or not?

Its 'Freedom of Religion'....but you seem to want 'Freedom from Religion'. :lol:

Exactly. There is no separation of church and state clause in the US constitution, it says this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That is the exact words of the constitution stating that the can establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise of it. Nowhere does it say that the govern cannot fund religious programs that help other people. If it were to be funding churches, then it would be wrong, but not for religious education. The much abuse letter by Thomas Jefferson is taken out of context.
 
3rd Treaty of Tripoli brah.
 
3rd Treaty of Tripoli brah.

Which hasnt been in effect and has had no power since? That treaty was broken almost as soon as it was ratified.

Not to mention, it isnt without its own bit of conspiracy in regards to it (as anyone who cites it should know).
 
That is the exact words of the constitution stating that the can establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise of it.

Er, yeah. It's the establishment clause. From a textualist:

Hugo Black said:
The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."
 
Top Bottom