The tech-pace is too slow

[futurehermit]

I hope in the next patch the tech pace will be addressed. The AI just techs too slow (monarch/normal, but have seen in the strategy forums a player getting liberalism at 1400AD on immortal!).

In warlords the AIs would get liberalism ca. 1000-1100. Now it is pushed back at least 200 years.

Furthermore, I have had numerous games where it would be 1950AD and no AI had yet built the apollo program

I am constantly having to self-research the majority of the 1st half of the tech tree and almost completely for the 2nd half of the tech tree.

I don't want it to be the other extreme where you can trade your way up the tree, but honestly a 1/2 decent trade every once in a blue moon to keep the pace chugging along instead of grinding out every single tech yourself would be very nice!

I used to win on these settings (space) in warlords routinely around 1850AD +/- Now I am a full 100 years later in part because of the longer modern era but primarily because the AI techs so slow you can't pick up any trades.

I like the changes in BtS a lot but this is something that needs to be addressed imho. The AI just techs too darned slow.

 

[nour3001]

I guess it's due to the no tech brockering,and also due to the espionage bar,guess most of the AIs work it on 20% at least.

 

[LunaticSlave]

I have noticed that same thing for a while now. I play on Prince and i have noticed via espionage the ai most of the game keeps research at 50% tops. Invest either too much on espionage (seen it a lot on the 30% even on relatively early game) or just piles up too much gold keeping the commerce slider on the 40%s for no aparent reason. Ai pre bts research a lot more eficiently imo, sure the new ai wars better and such but overtime it will get super out teched and its military obseleted badly. Going to give a try on monarch my next game see how it goes

 

[johnny_rico]

Is it solely due to the fact the AI dedicates too much of the slider to espionage? It seems that they're easy to outpace there also. I wonder if the AI is set to treat all opposition as a '1' on the espionage screen. If the AI doesn't rank where it wants its espionage points, than it is probably contributing way more than it will ever use. A better way to say this is 'does the AI always distribute it's allocated Espionage points evenly across all known opposition'?

Seems like it would be difficult for each AI opponent to accurately appropriate their espionage funds (determining who to pick on, discerning who is the greatest threat).

But yes, they tech way too slow. Seems like if one can manage diplomacy, emperor is the new monarch. On prince and below, you have to play with a financial leader just to get it over with quicker.

With the amount of espionage points you can accumulate, you don't even need to trade anymore. Plan your research to bolster your own research rate, apply an appropriate defense, steal the missing techs (if any are out there), and then crush.

Thus far, I haven't seen a 'smarter' AI. Rather, there's so much new material they seem overwhelmed or unable to manage the econ slider.

 

[azaris]

Try gifting or selling techs to your allies to help them keep up in the tech race. Later on you might be able to trade some lesser techs from them and make great friends at the same time.

 

[MisterBarca]

I hope in the next patch the tech pace will be addressed. The AI just techs too slow (monarch/normal, but have seen in the strategy forums a player getting liberalism at 1400AD on immortal!).

In warlords the AIs would get liberalism ca. 1000-1100. Now it is pushed back at least 200 years.

Furthermore, I have had numerous games where it would be 1950AD and no AI had yet built the apollo program

I am constantly having to self-research the majority of the 1st half of the tech tree and almost completely for the 2nd half of the tech tree.

I don't want it to be the other extreme where you can trade your way up the tree, but honestly a 1/2 decent trade every once in a blue moon to keep the pace chugging along instead of grinding out every single tech yourself would be very nice!

I used to win on these settings (space) in warlords routinely around 1850AD +/- Now I am a full 100 years later in part because of the longer modern era but primarily because the AI techs so slow you can't pick up any trades.

I like the changes in BtS a lot but this is something that needs to be addressed imho. The AI just techs too darned slow.

AI tech speed is fine. I'd prefer the AI spending its resources on units than tech for more enjoyable games.

 

[axident]

I like it. At first in BtS, I made the mistake of trading tech too much, but now I just don't trade or sell anything good after a certain point, usually after my first Golden Age or so courtesy of Music's free great artist. I do trade the crappy techs that most civs already have, but I just research everything else myself and take advantage of the lower costs of backfill (since everyone will have compass or drama or whatever by the time I complete the dash for Liberalism->Nationalism->Taj Mahal). Combined with my encouraging perpetual world war (slows down AI's tech, increases unit costs, slows down infrastructure building, and makes inter-AI relations sour so there is less inter-AI tech trading and less AI teching overall), it really hampers AI teching. My current game features mass cavalry and some tanks vs. longbows, muskets, and a handful of cuirassiers. Monarch/standard/normal.

 

[ds61514]

Yea I actually like the slower tech pace. Building wonders is very fun; GL is a lot less important than it was before.

Futurehermit sounds like it's time to move up to Emperor!

 

[bonafide11]

I don't think the tech pace is that significantly slower considering the militaries that the Civs build up. I don't know why the tech pace needs to be faster, why should there be an Apollo Program before 1950 anyway? Why is it bad that Liberalism arrives later? You shouldn't be able to discover Liberalism in 1100AD anyway.

 

[Bhruic]

I like it. My current game features mass cavalry and some tanks vs. longbows, muskets, and a handful of cuirassiers. Monarch/standard/normal.

Wait, you like it because it turns the AI into a cakewalk?

Bh

 

[axident]

Wait, you like it because it turns the AI into a cakewalk?

Bh

It's not too slow if you don't antagonize it. In more peaceful games they gave me a run for my money. Anyway I'm trying to break 100k points before moving on to Emperor for less of a cakewalk, and I'm really close in my current game.. a few %land away from Domination and if the game "ends this turn" it says I'd have 107k or so.

 

[futurehermit]

It is too slow when I am able to get waaay ahead in tech early in the game. It's not like I play on noble. Monarch+ I expect that the AI can keep up in tech. Currently on monarch they can't.

 

[axident]

It is too slow when I am able to get waaay ahead in tech early in the game. It's not like I play on noble. Monarch+ I expect that the AI can keep up in tech. Currently on monarch they can't.

Do you set 100% to science too? I usually set 0% espionage and have 1 spy superspecialist carry the load until I can build courthouses and later on jails and intel/security. You can easily outtech the AI if they spend on espionage and you don't, and if you have a decent shrine or two (or more). I don't mind if once in a while I lose a pasture or get a city poisoned or something, if it means going from 90% to 100% beakers.

 

[Drakan]

I think the tech pace is just fine as it is in BTS. In any case I play with the no tech brockering option.

 

[meatwad4289]

best games ive played always were moving at about the same pace as the Real world,, meaning 1960s.. apollo program.

 

[Littlelisa]

In my games i find that 2-3 AIs keep up with me in tech, most fall just behind and at about 1 is always ahead

Though would be nice if they spent less messing with spies, they use up too much commerce on espionage and i seem to catch at least 1 spy per turn.

 

[futurehermit]

best games ive played always were moving at about the same pace as the Real world,, meaning 1960s.. apollo program.

but monarch+ ais should win SOONER than noble ais and i would think that noble ais should be building apollo in the 1960s not monarch+ ais

 

[Polycrates]

I really think that the root of the problem is that the AI undercapitalises on workers in the early game and thus has an underdeveloped empire for the early/midgame (and it also builds roads on every square in preference to actually building improvements). Once they get to ~liberalism-level advancement, they actually have decent development and they can take off like a rocket.

 

[bonafide11]

I really think that the root of the problem is that the AI undercapitalises on workers in the early game and thus has an underdeveloped empire for the early/midgame (and it also builds roads on every square in preference to actually building improvements). Once they get to ~liberalism-level advancement, they actually have decent development and they can take off like a rocket.

That's a good point. The AI seems to tech slower in the early game, but I find in the late game they often tech quite a bit faster, though if you gain a substantial lead in the early game, the AI still won't likely catch up. This is for me on Monarch anyway.

 

[Hawe Hawe]

In my games i find that 2-3 AIs keep up with me in tech, most fall just behind and at about 1 is always ahead

Though would be nice if they spent less messing with spies, they use up too much commerce on espionage and i seem to catch at least 1 spy per turn.

I have had similar experiences. The tech pace between the AI-Civs in the same game differs quite much. Tech-pace in general seems a bit slower, but there are always some civs doing very good while others fall increasingly behind. This was not the case in warlords, where Dschingis Khan might be 2-4 techs behind Mansa Musa but rarely a whole era.
Obviously Vassals and colonies will fall behind, but i have seen two AI-civs of same size, same land quality, same style of playing, with a totally different result.
Somehow the beginning of the gunpowder era seems to be a big step that some civs have difficulties to take. So i have seen AI-Kublai with a well promoted Infantry-Army while Boudicca and Hammurabi never get rid of their longbows in the 1900s.