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The thread for space cadets!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by hobbsyoyo, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    I am not sure what exactly you mean and how this could work if we are talking about global warming and CO2:
    - fossil fuels: you will not find fossil fuels in space and launching them into space will not work out even in the most optimistic theory. If you burn 1 kg of carbon you will get something like 30 MJ of energy, but you need to spend at least 60 MJ of energy to launch it into space. So even if all your efficiencies are near one, this will be a net loss (and we are not even accounting for the 2 kg of oxygen you would need as well). So there is no point at all in launching carbon into space to burn it there.
    - solar energy: you can certainly do that in space, but even with the most optimistic launch costs, it will still be cheaper to just put solar panels somewhere in the desert.
    - nuclear energy: Maybe you can mine uranium with reasonable efficiency on the moon and then set up nuclear power plants on the moon. The reasoning would be that the moon is a high radiation environment, anyway, so possible contamination from a nuclear accident or nuclear waste would not matter much. Cooling a nuclear power plant with extremely limited access to water would be an engineering nightmare, though.

    If you need some to try to poke holes into the reasoning for your book, you know where to go...
     
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  2. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    I'm talking about industrial pollution from heavy industry. Almost any non-biological raw material that is mined, refined and processed on Earth can have those things done in space, if you have the infrastructure in place to do it. It's been an impossible dream to put that infrastructure up there but we're reaching (not yet at, but reaching) a tipping point where that industrial build up can start to happen.

    So at some point you can use space technology to cancel future industrial emissions by moving them off planet. Not all of them, and probably none of them that require complex biological inputs. Any process that can run on solar power and raw material inputs is a potential candidate for off-planeting.
     
  3. r16

    r16 not deity

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    no , we are not .
     
  4. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    There is a small chance the the Hawaiian islands are built with rock material that originally came from the Theia impactor which is hypothesized to have struck the Earth and caused the moon to form. Turns out there are two very large bulges of hot material in the Earth's mantle with different isotopic ratios than the rest of the mantle and they may be remnant structures of Theia after it was absorbed by the Earth.
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/continents-of-the-underworld-come-into-focus-20200107/

    -------

    There's also a bunch of stars that went missing and it was definitely aliens.

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...at-went-missing-over-time-for-unknown-reasons
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  5. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    Industrial pollution I understand, with the caveat that you would need not only the space infrastructure, but also the environmental controls on Earth. As long as you are allowed to pollute Earth will little repercussions, there is no need to go into space.

    I do not see much benefit towards mitigating Global Warming, though. Since moving stuff into space is always going to require a lot of energy, we need to solve Earth's energy problems on earth.
     
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  6. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    I also believe that government regulations would be a part of the push to industrialize outer space.

    I think there will always be destructive, polluting industrial processes. You can try and clean things up but that is expensive and sometimes impossible. In those cases, industry will begin to off-planet so long as launch costs are low and most likely when government policy also supports that through subsidies or taxes on pollution.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  7. r16

    r16 not deity

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    and there's talk that ı knew something would happen . No , ı didn't . The airliner crash thing was finally stopped by an association of Russian veterans of the war in Afghanistan were convinced of talking . Putin can make elections but he can't make 1% to look 51% , not yet and his fame is protecting Mother Russia from all evil "and well ..." . ı wouldn't want to answer for the oligarks of Putin , so does Putin . The thing about F-110 being cleared out is simply because there was no company left to defend the F-14 but the engine maker has an history of coming back after PW fails big time . The rant then leads to a thing of how the scanner of some illicit copy of a magazine has "blanked" pages that might lead to stories on how the 1957 decision to ban combat aircraft in UK led to laziness in the anointed company , English Electric and it took them almost 30 years to become the monopoly in all meanings of the word in the UK scene .
     
  8. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    As I mentioned in the questions thread, Boeing has released to the public a bunch of emails from engineers at the company who variously attack the FAA and dream up ways to get around FAA oversight. They also say things like the 737 Max was designed by monkeys who are lead by clowns. It's all bad, for sure. And in instances where people were breaking laws to get around the government regulators, they should be prosecuted.

    But this whole thing is a farce meant to distract from systemic issues at the company and the rot at the top. For one, they did not have to publicly discloses these emails. For another, I don't think any of it materially changes the investigation or the preliminary conclusions. The company puts profit over all other considerations and exerted extreme pressure on middle management and the line engineers to conclude their work to get the 737 Max certified. That's how you wind up with engineers mocking the FAA; it's a company culture issue with the rot starting at the head.

    But now they can make it look like some shady engineers have sole responsibility for what the company did and this will ruin their lives. I'm not giving a pass to some jagoff engineers who were douches either. If they committed crimes, they should be held account. But they should not be singled out as the root cause of the problem.

    Big aerospace companies in the US have an established track record of acting this way after disaster. Line engineers at Thiokol warned that the boosters on the Challenger would fail and were actively overruled and ridiculed. Then, post-disaster, Thiokol acted as if the entire episode was the fault of those engineers. There was a similar slander effort after Columbia fried on re-entry.

    It's disgusting and they need to start throwing senior executives in prison.
     
  9. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Not an easy issue

    As soon as you make laws that enable that better, that top layer only introduces more management reporting protocols that enable better to pump that blame down again to the middle management and lower in the line.
    I have faced in my job life several of those waves.

    The core of the issue is expectation management of the future turnover and costs and that calculates to the share value
    As soon as you have a weak CEO, who is not able to handle the non-executives and analysts in that expectation management you are screwed.

    Laws, regulations convenants must be able to handle that critical part of the total company process.
    Is in effect a more effective total risk management
    (for all continous stakeholders: employees, consumers-citizens, owners)
     
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  10. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    That can be ok so long as the overall company culture also changes. Throwing executives into prison does tend to cause serious reformation at companies. Or maybe I'm wrong.
     
  11. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    It does to some degree change the culture in my experience... it empowers the "yes, but" colleagues. That's good. Every bit helps in inching forward cultural change processes.
    (I always tried to have a high enough percentage "yes, but" people in settings (plants, projects) I was responsible for)
    But if more senior management is not changed... the people or their responsibilities... not really much changes, in my experience, for many crucial decisions.
    On the downside: you do have added hassle for the middlemanagement only distracting from your core value and contribution.
    HR is very important when it is about culture !

    Prison as such is perfect.
    That's a real stick.
    Can be kind of comical in multinational companies when certain top managers can no longer visit certain countries (at one time several top managers above me could not visit a major country in Europe (face prison) because of outstanding environmental issues needing some Capex that was put on the back burner). But yeah... you solve that risk easily by having less critical people in the legal entity constructions protecting the critical people of operations.

    Taking key senior managers out by prison can ofc be a risk for the continuity of the turnover level of the company. But that will only "help" non-executives to do their work better regarding guarding the risk profile of the company.

    I think that in general the role and the weight of employees is missing in the evaluation of company risks reaching the analyst level of the stock exchange
    We have now only the "all or nothing" whistleblower construction... a whistleblower going public likely to be considered by many in the company (high and low) as a traitor.
    And to some degree "open door policies" where you have access to non-executives. But you can as well start looking for a new job if you use that.
     
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  12. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    @Hrothbern - The US has problems protecting whistleblowers as well. A NASA contractor was recently sentenced to pay a lot of money to the government for falsifying test reports. Part of the money had to go to the whistleblower for compensation for retaliation by the company against him. While it's great that justice was served in this instance, I think it is far more common that whistleblowers are not protected and are retaliated against without compensation.

    It is also true that some individuals will attempt to use whistleblower suits to conduct vendettas against former employers. I have personally seen that happen but I think it is a much smaller problem.


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    Congress gave NASA $600 million to develop a human lunar lander out of the $1 billion NASA requested. This is obviously better than nothing but makes it very hard to maintain the aggressive schedule that NASA has set for itself of a landing by 2024. Jim Bridenstine (the NASA admin) has stated that he expects the bidding companies to put 'skin in the game' by contributing enough funds to make up the shortfall from the government. Blue Origin seems to be stepping up to that plate and has put together a 'national team' of leading aerospace firms to work on its lander. The team includes Blue, Northrop and Lockheed. Boeing submitted a proposal but we don't know the details on it. SpaceX is believed to have made a submission based on the Starship design but this is not confirmed. We did find out today that Sierra Nevada teamed with Dynetics to submit a bid as well (picture below). About 10 to 15 years ago, Dynetics was a second or third tier aerospace supplier firm. They have spent the last decade making a coordinated push into the space segment and if their current growth continues, they will become a prime in their own right.

    https://spacenews.com/dynetics-sierra-nevada-bidding-on-artemis-lunar-lander/
     
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  13. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    yes

    and yes.. saw enough open door processes personally myself
    there are on top websites for that
    and big companies never want any publicity except what is positive and under control.

    and on financial compensations
    those are badly needed
    the issue ofc that once you have proper legislation for that, the government in her executive role as employer is bitten by its role as lawmaker.
    plenty of penalties to pay by the government once that legislation is well-established.
     
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  14. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Well except when they're slandering line engineers to absolve the company of responsibility. Boeing put out all this information publicly.
     
  15. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Boeing was already fully in the newsmedia
    first with the accidents
    and then with the FFA (the FFA helped to not have too feeble knees because of the European EASA in the background)


    the rest is kneejerk defense
    blame people below you

    I prefer big industrial companies to have a technical CEO (starting as engineer and long enough among engineers) and the CFO taking a bigger role in the expectation management towards the shareholders
     
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  16. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    I think we need some kind of criminal law for corporations. If an employee breaks laws while working for the corporation, the entire corporation gets punished. Jailing senior executives can be a part of that, but I think you to impose fines which really hurt the corporation as well. Otherwise, the shareholders get to reap the benefits of illegal activities without having to suffer much consequence. So they would still be pushing for legally risky behavior. And if there is personal risk involved for the executives, the risk-averse might shy away from such positions and you would get those who think they will never get caught.

    Shareholders should be terrified of their company being caught in illegal behavior.
     
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  17. r16

    r16 not deity

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    isn't that the day that Ukranian NG 800 went down ? Because the monkeys and clowns had already been leaked , ı just don't want to check whether ı had a rant on that .


    rantwise : Nobody comes out to play with me . ı spent the last week showing what was essentially wrong with Disney's Star Wars triology and didn't get a single response and the like in CFC ; the link provided there proving people would be arguing SW with me back in 2011 . Globally it might have led to a warning tweet on some unspecific storm coming and Disney people are like "What, more than usual?" But then there are those who think this is unfair , because ı might have really cool real toys and they would like to play , because like 40 odd years ago ı was a kid , too and that happens , some other kid with better toys . ı was 11 or something when we went to visit relatives in Bulgaria and 3 or 4 kids and their toy trucks and making roads on the "hills" made of snow in the garden and yours idiotly with no change of clothes and getting real wet , too .


    was not surprised Iran quickly changing direction , with the broken heart emoji from their Foreign Minister about the Ukranian airliner and the whole bunch . CFC people will find that real boring but there is this Kurdish thing in the Middle East ; with the two Arab countries gone , it's either us or the Iranians and Iran is so smart , let me tell you , they will not challenge major corporations ... oh because Airbus or Boeing will stop good old Trump loosing his head finally . And , oh , they have actually fired as well , with some heroic dude telling by the side how they are shooting down some cruise missile . Because that's what it is and they are not by some civilian airport and they don't have computers that track them open transponder airliners which have been overflying "sensitive locations" for like 60 years . Iran was preparing a guerilla war in Syria , they discovered it in two years or something New Turkey would not fight , because what , you think they would actually want to become "martyrs" ? Iran wasted sunshine and a serious amount of people . Russia came , after kissing Obama's feet , too , to stop Iranians and they have joined wasting the sunshine and a less serious amount of people . They could have won before the 2016 elections and nobody would have stolen their glory . Because the spineless jerk , Barack Hussein Obama had standarts , he will still be twice the man when compared to Trump , even he (the Kenyan dude) was to dress up as a drag queen .

    trouble , trouble . Can't even write a piece on Trump wanting the Nobel for Peace , because it was him who saved Ethiopia , not Ethiopia's prime Minister or President or whatever . Actually , no , he wants that Nobel because he kept his head and didn't nuke Persepolis . Nor , by the looks of it , you can tell the State Deprtment not to come back , because you know , they will just go and kill another Iranian general . ı don't know how that hurts me ... The whole imbecility of it can be deduced by the still not-ending tales of the "embesil who cries" . She understands , but naturally doesn't understand . Her pictures are on the cellphones even and people are comparing her with the Page 3 girl ı have never seen . She stalls , by being the laughing stock of the place , also causing laughter against me , people ı know and people ı don't know . Because the whole peoples of the country like totally know they (Americans and people here) are waiting the old guard to die of natural causes . Decent guy here , won't wish them an early death and stuff , but won't we all see what will happen after dat ?

    industry affairs in this nonsense ? Well , the global aviation industry will be following media . They will notice this editor in chief giving tips on "flirting". As if anyone would need that advice or him giving the said advice . Not a thing on me , ı will be totally saved when some Klingon spacemarine is cleared to talk in the way people will inevitably be able to understand , after some broken legs , too . It's rather for the boys of New Turkey and some girls , too , who need to get out and grab some from those who will like be able to conduct business after New Turkey falls . None of them want their "justice" applied to them , they all know they will not be able to get easy/no-need-to-pay-back credits so they are to fly out of the nest , grab some as already said and survive . Them , their families and family wealth . And they no longer have Adnan Hoca and his expertise and his harem of 1990s , specifically trained . "Technically" they were all virgins , too . Like essential after all those companies established by the Kemalists and stuff after the 1975-8 American arms embargo have supported a constutitional seminar/workshop for Asrika , some Muslim state in Asia and Africa , with its capital in -guessed right- Istanbul . 60 odd countries coming under the banner . Throwing out the Crescent And Star , Turkish language , too , because when CHP tells people , because anyone in Europe would ever listen to the Main Opposition . Yeah , when the party established by Marshall Gazi Mustafa Kemal Atatürk tells people , New Turkey's tank will suddenly have a tank engine , possibly the one everybody laughs at for being an 1800 hp diesel and nobody does that and New Turkey will sell 3000 of them to the Arabs of all sorts . So , all those people have to look nice to Arabs , promising to be their slave soldiers , too , as long as Arabs buy some . Will be totally angry when ı get blamed of figuring out Finn's entire story because ı was trying to convince our future masters that slave soldiers are bad .
     
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  18. hobbsyoyo

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    If you were posting that in the All Things Star Wars Thread, I cannot see it because of the spoilers.
     
  19. hobbsyoyo

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    The USAF commissioned the RAND Corporation to do a study of the implications of the USAF's launch competition on the market. RAND pointed out that three of the contending launch vehicles (Vulcan, New Glenn and OmegA) share engines and thus they expect any delays in one of those programs to spill over to the others. To mitigate this, RAND suggests that the USAF take on 3 launch vehicle providers by some means instead of just the 2 that it currently envisions. RAND also believes this will drive down prices in the long run as a 3-launcher split for military launches means that it is very likely that each launch provider will have to pursue commercial business to remain viable. The other benefit that RAND sees to this is that it will help stop next-generation European and Russian launch vehicles from crowding the market; they'd instead be crowded out by American vehicles.

    I have not read the base study but I did read this article on it and I have to say I disagree with some of the analysis and conclusions they reach from it. They advocate for the US to drop the ban on Russian RD-180 engines beyond 2021 which to me seems unnecessary. They also advocate selling off surplus ICBM stocks to private launch providers which is also unnecessary. It's also inherently anti-competitive, which is why Congress has heavily restricted that practice. The Chinese are currently doing this but they openly subsidize any business they want without ideological repercussions or even really that much consideration for the impact on the overall market.
    https://spacenews.com/independent-s...orce-should-support-three-domestic-providers/

    ---------


    On this coming Saturday, SpaceX will conduct and in-flight abort of their Crew Dragon spacecraft. It should be quite spectacular to watch!
    https://spacenews.com/spacex-ready-for-crew-dragon-in-flight-abort-test/



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    Delays in the return to flight of Arianespace's Vega rocket meant that one of their customers has switched to the Soyuz. The article is not explicit on this but I believe the Soyuz is being procured by Arianespace rather than through Roscosmos. In other words, they kept the sale even if they have a different cost structure in who builds the rocket.
    https://spacenews.com/uaes-falcon-eye-2-satellite-switched-from-vega-to-soyuz/
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  20. hobbsyoyo

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    This poorly-written article describes NOAA's (national oceanic and atmospheric administration - a US federal department) efforts to update their space-weather fleet. NOAA maintains a small amount of instruments to track space weather and they are planning on building out that capacity. I do not know if any other countries are watching space weather. I assume they do but I haven't heard much on it.
     

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