The thread for space cadets!

[Broken_Erika]

China's Moon mission sees first seeds sprout

Seeds taken up to the Moon by China's Chang'e-4 mission have sprouted, says China National Space Administration.

It marks the first time any biological matter has grown on the Moon, and is being seen as a significant step towards long-term space exploration.

The Chang'e 4 is the first mission to land on and explore the Moon's far side, facing away from Earth.

It touched down on 3 January, carrying instruments to analyse the region's geology.

• What does China want to do on the Moon's far side?
• Why China has its eye on space
• China Moon probes take snaps of each other

Plants have been grown on the International Space Station before but never on the Moon.

The ability to grow plants on the Moon will be integral for long-term space missions, like a trip to Mars which would take about two-and-a-half years.

It would mean that astronauts could potentially harvest their own food in space, reducing the need to come back down to Earth to resupply.

The Chinese Moon lander was carrying among its cargo soil containing cotton and potato seeds, yeast and fruit fly eggs.

The plants are in a sealed container on board the lander. The crops will try to form a mini biosphere - an artificial, self-sustaining environment.

 

[Estebonrober]

Yea this is slightly disturbing to me an an Amurican but encouraging as a human.

 

[Lexicus]

I, on the contrary, am terrified that the virus seems to be spreading.

 

[Imaus]

Yea this is slightly disturbing to me an an Amurican but encouraging as a human.

America will catch up. If DSG (or whatever it's called now) isn't axed and the Mars missions go ahead, the Yanks will leave everyone at best playing in Lunar dust.

The real question is: what happens after. Manned HOPE? A lunar base like ESA and Roscomos obstentially keep yapping about? Mars bases? Nuclear ships? The Chinese will probably follow to Mars quickly. The Indians may not. The Europeans and Russians may never get someone on the Moon in our youthful adulthood, the Japanese might never launch someone in that timeframe, the Brazilians still haven't recovered from 2003 and may not have by 2033.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yea this is slightly disturbing to me an an Amurican but encouraging as a human.

Why do you find it disturbing?

I'm super ****ing stoked that other nations are getting serious about space exploration and science. I want all of us to advance and I don't find any country advancing in space exploration as a threat in and of itself. China has a badass military but this kind of mission really doesn't translate into military applications very well at all. In the US, this kind of mission is completely declassified and open to the public excluding trade secrets. It's a shame things are not as open in China because of the way their system is by default but it really shouldn't be threatening.

On that end, Iran just attempted to put a 200kg satellite in low earth orbit but failed when the third stage stopped working for unknown reasons. Western government officials are feaking out over it and claim it's a 'clear' breach of treaties and cover for a ballistic missile program. In that instance, the work is quite a bit more applicable to military applications but it's still not a clear 1:1 conversion. If the Iranians ever fielded an ICBM system based on that rocket, it would almost be comically out of date and ill-suited to modern nuclear war. It's exactly the kind of missile that the US missile shield can defeat with some degree of certainty.

What the Iranians do get out of a program like that militarily is just general know-how and the development of skills within your workforce that are transferable to military endeavors. While somewhat concerning, this should also be taken in the context of an entire wave of lower-tier economies pushing hard into the overall space market place.

As much as a general in Washington can claim Iran is developing rockets to turn in weapons, I can claim instead that Iran is developing rockets to take away jobs from SpaceX.

I, on the contrary, am terrified that the virus seems to be spreading.

Is life the virus or just mankind?

We have an obligation to spread life. If we don't, it's all going to end. I don't think that's morally correct. I know I'm talking about things that will play out on cosmic timescales but they are certainties nonetheless. We have to get off this rock and help spread life with us. I think life is inherently good.

America will catch up. If DSG (or whatever it's called now) isn't axed and the Mars missions go ahead, the Yanks will leave everyone at best playing in Lunar dust.

The real question is: what happens after. Manned HOPE? A lunar base like ESA and Roscomos obstentially keep yapping about? Mars bases? Nuclear ships? The Chinese will probably follow to Mars quickly. The Indians may not. The Europeans and Russians may never get someone on the Moon in our youthful adulthood, the Japanese might never launch someone in that timeframe, the Brazilians still haven't recovered from 2003 and may not have by 2033.

The European space program is tied into both the Russian and American programs. The Europeans may never lead a manned mission on their own but they will be present on any missions by those other groups. There are rumblings that the US may allow NASA to begin co-orperating with CNES (China's space program) and Jim Bridenstine (NASA director) is a proponent of opening relations in space activities.

NASA actually worked with China to take images of the landing site (which they shared with the Chinese) with passes from their own orbiter. Depending on how you interpret the statutes, this may be a violation of Congress's embargo on NASA/CNES co-operation.

I strongly support the move.

 

[Lexicus]

Is life the virus or just mankind?

We have an obligation to spread life. If we don't, it's all going to end. I don't think that's morally correct. I know I'm talking about things that will play out on cosmic timescales but they are certainties nonetheless. We have to get off this rock and help spread life with us. I think life is inherently good.

Humans mostly, I don't want us messing with other celestial bodies too much (yet) because we don't know enough to avoid damaging them. There may be evidence of past life on Mars but if we start terraforming the place willy-nilly we'll never know it.

What the Iranians do get out of a program like that militarily is just general know-how and the development of skills within your workforce that are transferable to military endeavors. While somewhat concerning, this should also be taken in the context of an entire wave of lower-tier economies pushing hard into the overall space market place.

I hope the Iranians get nuclear weapons very soon, that will stop the US from invading them if anything will.

 

[Estebonrober]

Why do you find it disturbing?

I'm super ****ing stoked that other nations are getting serious about space exploration and science. I want all of us to advance and I don't find any country advancing in space exploration as a threat in and of itself. China has a badass military but this kind of mission really doesn't translate into military applications very well at all. In the US, this kind of mission is completely declassified and open to the public excluding trade secrets. It's a shame things are not as open in China because of the way their system is by default but it really shouldn't be threatening.

On that end, Iran just attempted to put a 200kg satellite in low earth orbit but failed when the third stage stopped working for unknown reasons. Western government officials are feaking out over it and claim it's a 'clear' breach of treaties and cover for a ballistic missile program. In that instance, the work is quite a bit more applicable to military applications but it's still not a clear 1:1 conversion. If the Iranians ever fielded an ICBM system based on that rocket, it would almost be comically out of date and ill-suited to modern nuclear war. It's exactly the kind of missile that the US missile shield can defeat with some degree of certainty.

What the Iranians do get out of a program like that militarily is just general know-how and the development of skills within your workforce that are transferable to military endeavors. While somewhat concerning, this should also be taken in the context of an entire wave of lower-tier economies pushing hard into the overall space market place.

As much as a general in Washington can claim Iran is developing rockets to turn in weapons, I can claim instead that Iran is developing rockets to take away jobs from SpaceX.

Is life the virus or just mankind?

We have an obligation to spread life. If we don't, it's all going to end. I don't think that's morally correct. I know I'm talking about things that will play out on cosmic timescales but they are certainties nonetheless. We have to get off this rock and help spread life with us. I think life is inherently good.



The European space program is tied into both the Russian and American programs. The Europeans may never lead a manned mission on their own but they will be present on any missions by those other groups. There are rumblings that the US may allow NASA to begin co-orperating with CNES (China's space program) and Jim Bridenstine (NASA director) is a proponent of opening relations in space activities.

NASA actually worked with China to take images of the landing site (which they shared with the Chinese) with passes from their own orbiter. Depending on how you interpret the statutes, this may be a violation of Congress's embargo on NASA/CNES co-operation.

I strongly support the move.

I didn't mean it in a military sense, more of a we are not leading everything all the time anymore. The Chinese are in from on quantum communication too which is militarily applicable. Anyways we've ceded space in the tech race and its slightly disconcerting. I support the idea of humanity moving forward, I hope we can find out a way to spread life. Even though it will all end in dust as it began the journey is the point of it all. Spreading life makes that journey more interesting for the universe, even if it is tragically interesting like Lexi seems to suppose.

 

[peter grimes]

Was just reading a bit about the Chang'e 3 & 4 missions currently underway. The utterly surprising thing to me is that the Soviet Union (leaders in nearly every important Space Exploration milestone) actually photographed the far side of the moon in 1959!!

I didn't even know that they had sent anything to the moon at that point - just thought they were still in LEO. That's remarkable.

 

[Broken_Erika]

First green leaf on moon dies as temperatures plummet
Cotton plant perishes on lunar far side after sprouting on board China’s Chang’e 4 lander

The appearance of a single green leaf hinted at a future in which astronauts would grow their own food in space, potentially setting up residence at outposts on the moon or other planets. Now, barely after it had sprouted, the cotton plant onboard China’s lunar rover has died.

The plant relied on sunlight at the moon’s surface, but as night arrived at the lunar far side and temperatures plunged as low as -170C, its short life came to an end.

Prof Xie Gengxin of Chongqing University, who led the design of the experiment, said its short lifespan had been anticipated. “Life in the canister would not survive the lunar night,” Xie said.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...rst-cotton-plant-on-moon-dies-change-4-lander

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Humans mostly, I don't want us messing with other celestial bodies too much (yet) because we don't know enough to avoid damaging them. There may be evidence of past life on Mars but if we start terraforming the place willy-nilly we'll never know it.

What is there to mess with on other celestial bodies? Empty rocks have no inherent value without someone around to give them value. If we don't help life get off our particular rock then I see it as if the entire grand experiment of life coming to an end.

I hope and really believe there is other life out there but I can't be certain of it. What I can be certain of is that all life on our own planet will be wiped out eventually without someone to help it escape that fate. We're still figuring out how to meet our own needs without wrecking everything we touch but we're getting there. Good things are around the corner.

Was just reading a bit about the Chang'e 3 & 4 missions currently underway. The utterly surprising thing to me is that the Soviet Union (leaders in nearly every important Space Exploration milestone) actually photographed the far side of the moon in 1959!!

I didn't even know that they had sent anything to the moon at that point - just thought they were still in LEO. That's remarkable.

Yup, they were world leaders in space exploration for a good decade. Non-manned (and non-military) missions tailed off for the Russians in the 80's and have essentially stopped altogether this decade. It's sad.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...rst-cotton-plant-on-moon-dies-change-4-lander

This is also a bummer. My first reaction was, well they must have rushed to add that at the last minute because surely they could keep the plants alive for 2 weeks! Then I thought on it more and all the things it would take to keep them alive during a lunar night and yeah, that's actually a tough nut to crack. That would be a whole mission in and of itself and would require an RTG or a massive battery pack that leaves little room for anything else.

IIRC, this lander also has a UV telescope like the previous lander did - which means these things are absolutely packed with science gear. It's awesome. And while the previous rover died, the lander that carried it down is still functional and they still use the UV telescope today (with a brief interruption as ground controllers supported the new lander's landing).

 

[Lexicus]

What I can be certain of is that all life on our own planet will be wiped out eventually without someone to help it escape that fate.

I am not optimistic that our civilization will manage to survive out the century, but we'll see.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I am not optimistic that our civilization will manage to survive out the century, but we'll see.

Depressing thought, isn't it?

A few months back I saw a meteor and my first thought was that it was a North Korean strike on Los Angeles. No joke, true story. I'm becoming more fearful of the future than optimistic.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Life will be wiped eventually of our planet, no doubt. But it will happen eons after humankind becomes extinct for whatever reason. Lets not lose sight of the big picture of things and how insignificant in time we are.

 

[Lexicus]

A few months back I saw a meteor and my first thought was that it was a North Korean strike on Los Angeles. No joke, true story. I'm becoming more fearful of the future than optimistic.

"The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters." -Antonio Gramsci

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Life will be wiped eventually of our planet, no doubt. But it will happen eons after humankind becomes extinct for whatever reason. Lets not lose sight of the big picture of things and how insignificant in time we are.

I do not accept this as inevitable. If we are defining humanity becoming extinct as humans downloading into computers or genetically engineering ourselves into new species, yeah I can accept that possibility. But I do not think we should accept the temporary nature of our existence as a species to be a given and from that decide we should do nothing to prevent the extinction of all known life in the universe.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I do not accept this as inevitable. If we are defining humanity becoming extinct as humans downloading into computers or genetically engineering ourselves into new species, yeah I can accept that possibility. But I do not think we should accept the temporary nature of our existence as a species to be a given and from that decide we should do nothing to prevent the extinction of all known life in the universe.

I dont think we are going to survive as species along ages and become some kind of god-like huge flying heads. Humans have been here for a microsecond in geological terms and are already struggling for surviving a number of self-created menaces. Unless tomorrow the Sun decides it is over for everybody, life is going to survive us, whatever our end is. Probably in another geological microsecond there will be not vestiges of our existence while giant neorabbits graze quietly on the grasslands of Manhattan. I did not say to do nothing about preventing our own extinction as long as we can, obviously, but saving life in Earth is beyond our capacity and sounds even pretty arrogant to me. We probably couldnt destroy it even if we tried, much less to save it.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Depressing thought, isn't it?

A few months back I saw a meteor and my first thought was that it was a North Korean strike on Los Angeles. No joke, true story. I'm becoming more fearful of the future than optimistic.

I read that Japan just launched some artificial meteors into orbit on a satellite.

They are tiny pellets that create an artificial meteor shower over Japan at the push of a button.

Supposed to be a space-based fireworks display for urban land viewers bright enough to outshine regular meteor showers.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

That's cool. Let's deliberately add more junk and debris up there. Well done Japan.

 

[Kaitzilla]

That's cool. Let's deliberately add more junk and debris up there. Well done Japan.

Everything is done to completely burn up on re-entry.

And it's not decadently wasteful if the population density is high enough.

The burn happens 37 miles up, so everything should be safe.

It's not even close to how irresponsible China was blowing up that satellite in orbit.

 

[red_elk]

I guess the concern is about polluting the space, not about damaging something on the ground