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The toughest civ nations to play against

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by GKShaman, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. GKShaman

    GKShaman Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
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    349
    I just wanted to hear from the community.

    Im thinking of starting a game on Immortal

    I just wanted the nations the AI uses well/hard to play against. Only in 1 game out of 5 has Shaka not been a runaway for me.

    I want a list of nations that makes the 4 victory conditions difficult (Ignoring Time).

    So as follows

    MILITARY
    Shaka
    Huns

    DIPLOMATIC
    Siam
    Greece

    SCIENTIFIC
    Babylon
    Korea

    Cultural
    France
    India? Inca not sure.

    Makes Religion a pain
    Ethiopia
    Maya

    Honestly not sure where these nations fit but in my experience these nations do really well:

    Poland

    What nation am I missing?
     
  2. Byzantine Bomb

    Byzantine Bomb Warlord

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    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ethiopia, ugh. Their constant missionary and great prophet spawning into my territory always leads to me declaring war on them.
     
  3. northernscribe

    northernscribe Chieftain

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    Nov 2, 2012
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    80
    Celts are irritating because they get a pantheon five turns in; Egypt for wonder spamming, Russia/Poland/Iroquois for city spamming.
     
  4. Jon the Bastard

    Jon the Bastard Warlord

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    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Napoleon is a fickle, fickle little Frenchman.

    Military:
    Rome
    Japan

    Diplomatic:
    Sweden
    Morocco
    Portugal

    Cultural:
    Siam
    France

    Science:
    Korea
    Babylon

    Religion:
    Celts
    Ethiopia

    Again, I would highlight Napoleon. For some reason, he's always a problem in my games. If he isn't a cultural powerhouse, he's forward settling and popping borders like a madman. Always a military threat in my games, too. He's a challenging AI all around, I think.
     
  5. xxblackdog

    xxblackdog Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Capital City, Arakis
    "Military: Shaka"

    I have come to learn that this is true!
     
  6. Talcove

    Talcove Slayer of Spies

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Mississauga
    MILITARY
    Zulu - Less maint cost, less exp to level up, super promotions, IMPI!!!
    Mongolia - those Khans... Those KESHIKS!!!
    Huns Only a threat if he starts near you. Once you're into the late classical or medieval era then you're home safe.

    DIPLOMATIC
    Siam - Not so much is the problem in it's UA, but in what it's UA causes this Civ to do, and it does it far too well. Also, HUGE JERKY WARMONGERER.
    Greece - Greece + Patronage + Charitable Missions + Freedom/Autocracy = All of your city states belong to me.

    SCIENTIFIC
    Babylon - They're good when the player uses them, but the AI does NOT know how to use Great Scientists. 4/5 games Nebby just sits around with a city or two, waiting for someone better to come along and destroy him.
    Korea
    China - Never played an Earth map game with China in which they DIDN'T beat me to the spaceship. Screw them.

    CULTURAL
    France - If they even get ONE cultural wonder, watch out!
    Brazil - EVERYONE wants to go to Carnival!

    RELIGION
    Ethiopia - IRL all of the missionaries go to Ethopia. In-game, Ethopia takes it's revenge with it's missionary army!
    Maya - Separation of church and science? Not for the Maya!
    Celts - Always taking the good pantheons at turn 5. >_<

    ALL AROUND ANNOYING
    Inca - Not impeded by hills? Check. Pay little to no maint for roads/railroads? Check. Potentially hanging-garden level hill farms? Check.
    Austria/Venice - STOP EATING ALL OF MY ALLIES!
    Iroquois - Chop down every tree, build every wonder.
    Denmark - it annoys me just how much they FAAAAAAAIL!
     
  7. SemperFi2382

    SemperFi2382 Mitten Marauder

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    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    MILITARY
    N/A

    DIPLOMATIC
    Siam - Just a douche in every game I've played.
    Greece - Always has a 1,000 delegates, and billions of influence points on any City-State.

    SCIENTIFIC
    N/A

    CULTURAL
    Egypt - My last 2 games they've been the runaway civ generating over 200+ Tourism before I even get out of the Modern Era.
    Iroquois - Chop down every tree, build every wonder, spam GW and Artifacts.

    RELIGION
    Ethiopia - Missionary Spam!
    Celts - Makes Ethiopia's Missionary Spam look tame sometimes.

    ALL AROUND ANNOYING
    Inca - Not impeded by hills? Check. Pay little to no maint for roads/railroads? Check. Potentially hanging-garden level hill farms? Check.
    Austria/Venice - Like Greece, only harder to stamp out.
     
  8. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

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    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Yeah Babylon has only ever been a science leader in one game with him.

    Military hmm... Zulu yes, but Japan and France are also potential pains if you are near them, because on Immortal the AI gets access to steel/gunpowder very quickly even with zero science focus. They've actually dragged down some of my Immortal games into losses (fighting them makes you fall behind the not-them civs in tech), so I guess that's saying something.

    Huns sort of, but the nice thing about battering ram is you know it's coming so just go meet it in the field and DOW first.

    So much of the other stuff is just random.

    Everyone makes religion a pain right now thanks to AI loving piety. I've been out-religioned as Ethiopia with Desert Faith - by the Iroquois. But Gajah should get a mention what with frequent Desert starts and the Candi.

    Russia is one of my most consistent threats right now - wide focus with a love of mines and Order.
     
  9. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Location:
    Poland
    Why has nobody mentioned Germany? Maybe this is not the most powerful nation (however Hanse improved it significantly) but Bismarck is EXTREMELY dangerous leader, at least in my games o_o

    Also, Catherine loves creating strong empires with powerful industry
    Shaka is Adolf Hitler of this game
    Gustaw Adolf, well, I am afraid of him :p This guy can be calm for the first half of the game and suddenly he conquers half of the world ;)
     
  10. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    Oct 21, 2013
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    That list would be for human players. i.e. Babylon doesn't do anything AI-wise. Catherine would be a better choice - she actually has a higher science and space-ship rating, and tends to create a number of cities (which helps the AI). The Iroquois are also strong in that regard.
     
  11. Jacozilla

    Jacozilla Warlord

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    May 6, 2013
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    Perhaps not difficult per se, and not a victory condition but I really detest religious spammer civs.

    Whichever victory condition I'm going for, religious zealots just annoy me no end.

    So my only category for toughest civs are those annoying jerky jerks - the crusader fanatics:
    Ethiopia
    Celts
    Whichever civ got desert folklore on decent desert lands
    Random civ that went piety and wonder whored all the fpt wonders

    Whenever I see a missionary or GP get even near my borders, I can't help it and just go all holy war on them, even if it means breaking dof to backstab them. Inevitably I'm always pulled into wars this way.
     
  12. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    Illinois, USA
    I think you are thinking about this topic wrong. Just because a civ is better at a certain victory type does not mean they make that victory type harder for you.

    For example, I would say that Shaka makes the other victory types harder because he forces you to focus more on military, when you may prefer focusing on something else.

    To that same token, a civ good at cultural victory will probably make your military victory harder because while you are focusing on military and destroying everyone else, they are dominating everyone in culture and they may win the game before you can finish your domination.
     
  13. GKShaman

    GKShaman Prince

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    I was a bit confused on how to really communicate this thread. I've tried some games already (only first 90 turns.)

    My results

    Brazil and France really make culture difficult

    Pacal and Ethiopia make a powerful religion hard

    and MAN Greece and Siam make having a city state friend hard.

    Austria and Venice make having city states hard

    and well Shaka is Shaka.
     
  14. KmDubya

    KmDubya King

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    Location:
    Nong Bua Lam Pha, Thailand
    Challenging would be a large block of coalition types with high warmonger hatred. A lone madman like Attila is easy to handle. A group of friends who chain denounce and chain DOW you when you defend yourself can ruin you. Worse case a weasel like Washington is friends with the cool kids and aggressively forward settles you after you make a declaration of friendship with him. If you fight they all will back him not you, if you don't you get boxed in and stunted.

    Someone with high warmonger tolerance is easy to get along with and makes a good friend, the low tolerance guys are just waiting to backstab denounce you at the first chance.

    Austria and Greece both do a good job of being aggressive and also grab a lot of CS allies. they also both like friends when they start a war.

    Venice is limited to three or four citystate acquisitions and their empire is spread out and hard to defend. Austria is like the Borg.
     
  15. GoStu

    GoStu King

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    Calgary
    And the awards go to:

    WAR:
    Shaka of the Zulus! For outstanding achievements in the fields of building ridiculously large armies, and objecting to every city as being in his land, Shaka is the hands down most dangerous warmonger. Bonus points for outright cheating with impi ranged attacks.

    Runner up is Ghengis Khan of the Mongols. You'd do better if you stopped killing city states, but otherwise pretty scary.

    CULTURE:
    Napoleon of France! Those chateaus really spit out so much culture it's hard to out tourism him, then they provide tourism, then they provide defensive bonuses when I try to kill him. Add in a good military and a penchant for culture Wonders and Napoleon is a nuisance.

    Runner up is Pedro of Brazil. You'd be more dangerous if you could overcome that jungle start. Normally I meet you when you're dying if warmonger invasion

    SCIENCE:
    Sejong of Korea. I can barely keep up, and if I try to invade early you've got a nasty rocket surprise. Later, you're probably ahead in tech.

    Runner up is Wu Zutein of China. Strong science flavor and kicks ass. Dangerous.

    DIPLOMACY:
    Award cancelled due to lack of nominees. Nobody ever threatens diplomatically. I've never had huge problems with city states as long as I have some gold, spies, and my empire can win the odd contest.

    RELIGION:
    I don't know where you get the faith for all those prophets, Haile, but they're currently Holy Sites thanks to barbarians. Also, when you say you'll stop prophet-bombing me and then don't, you get promoted to #1 on the murder list. Yes, I always have a murder list. You top it a lot.

    ALL AROUND ANNOYANCE:
    Ramkhamhaeng of Siam! You are always #1 on my kill list, if only to shut you up.
    Runner up to Hiawatha for uglying up the landscape with silly numbers of cities and responding to invasions with waves of settlers. Possibly, he thinks that he can found cities faster than I can raze them. This is almost true.
     
  16. jlim201

    jlim201 King

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    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    War- Japan- Constantly declares war on you and kills a lot of units. The good thing is, he dosent like attacking cities.

    Spain- Why do you not want to make peace?

    Culture- No one is really a threat, but I find Babylon gets in the way of culture victory a lot. He gets an early science boost, so he builds a lot of early wonders, giving him more culture early game which is hard to overcome to win.

    Diplo- Greece- It is already kind of obvious. Large military, lots of allies which pester you with units.

    Religion- Ethiopia/Maya- When they get missionaries, they WILL spam the globe with them, unsuccessfully. The Celts may get a pantheon early, but they are not annoying about it.

    Science- No one really.

    All Around- Babylon, once again. Good at everything because of the early headstart and spams cities.
     
  17. seanflokstra7

    seanflokstra7 Prince

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    In your mind
    Before I start, I don't have BNW. I play G&K, but no BNW. There won't be any BNW civs

    WAR: France. Napo, why are you friendly to me all the time, but then you attack me.

    Science: Never have problems with science

    Diplo: KAMEHAMEHA! I hate him. Every CS is his, and he's too friendly, so I don't want to kill him, he looks so sad when he dies

    Culture: Napoleon, why?

    All around: Alex. DOW me? Check. Pissed when I kill a CS, EVEN IF IT ISN'T HIS ALLY OR HE ISN'T PROTECTING IT
    Austria. Every CS ally, dead. Diplomatic marriage
     
  18. georgie

    georgie Warlord

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    One that no one has mentioned yet that I always hate especially during the Renaissance is Elizabeth's England.
    Those Longbows are the absolute worst when you are trying to make an assault on her empire. I have been stalled from domination many times due to those longbows.
     
  19. ixias

    ixias Warlord

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    I find Hiawatha, Shaka, Casimir, and Alex to be the most effective/challenging opponents. Wu has the science flavor to be a threat, but usually stays small and gets conquered later game.

    Pachacuti usually is a strong contender and does well throughout the game. I've actually had Bismark and William doing well lately. Persia can also be a threat sometimes.

    England and Siam are usually pretty strong AI, but their nasty attitudes have everyone hating them.

    The Mongols and Huns seem scary on paper, but I usually don't have problems with then. Once you have Composite Bowmen, Attila is pretty much nullified. Mongolia is fine as long as you give him a target. I've actually been very good friends with Genghis in most of my games because he has a high loyalty rating.
     
  20. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    ummm,
    In vanilla and G&K, Catherine and Siam are the two hardest civs to beat. Both get wide puppet empire and then rocket right trough the info era and win science victories. Cathy is still strong in BNW, but she really shined in the older versions
     

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