The Touhou Mod Development Thread

[Kiefmaster99]

I know that you and a number of modders have expressed their desire to create civs that can fit in with all the other real ones, which is fine and all. But I do think that a mod that's closer to full-conversion would be more enjoyable, as it would bring that unique Touhou atmosphere and flavour to an otherwise normal game. You wouldn't be able to pull off unique features akin to unique or added techs, hero units, or spell cards with an added civ alone.

Of course, to create such a mod requires plenty of time and patience. It's not completely impossible though. It doesn't have to be all-at-once either; even the mechanics of Touhou Epic built up from simple to increasingly more complex.

Perhaps other mods have ideas. The spell card mechanics in Touhou Epic for example were derived from the FfH mod.

Well, I would want to commit to a full-scale mod only after the last expansion is released anyways, so as to have a full array of tools and ideas to use. Perhaps now's not the time, but it's something to think about years down the road.



As for the Forest of Magic, you have two witches - one power-based, the other doll-based - and a shopkeeper. I'm strongly inclined to have Alice be represented through either a doll UU, or some sort of promotion unique for infantry. Other ideas include doll workers, or some sort of theatre. The Thaumaturgy idea is interesting, though I wonder how it would fit with Marisa. I guess resource creation could support a limited amount of dolls. Maybe something incorporating a Hakkero or that new observatory she got in FS. Both are studious magicians, so maybe a boost to research? Just a few ideas.

 

[Huitzil37]

Oh, by the way, after seeing the Madoka civ mod come out as basically "Eientei but better" and not seeing any complaints that it's overpowered, I decided to bump up Eientei's ability. It's now +25% GP generation, and GP tile improvements generate 2 extra of their special resource (Faith for Holy Site, Production for Manufactory, etc.) and +4 Food. The Madoka dude plans to change their ability to be a bonus when GP are expended for any reason, but this ability still made me feel like Eientei was anemic. Also, the Lunar Defense Force no longer has extended movement after I realized it was the third UU I made with extra movement range and that it didn't feel right for a "defender"; now it has the ability to repair pillaged improvements instead.

And I still want to make the Kappa civ better. Apolo, what is the thing that I have to do to make suggestions or ask for changes that you won't feel like it's just me being mean or whatever?

 

[bouncymischa]

As for the Forest of Magic, you have two witches - one power-based, the other doll-based - and a shopkeeper. I'm strongly inclined to have Alice be represented through either a doll UU, or some sort of promotion unique for infantry. Other ideas include doll workers, or some sort of theatre. The Thaumaturgy idea is interesting, though I wonder how it would fit with Marisa. I guess resource creation could support a limited amount of dolls. Maybe something incorporating a Hakkero or that new observatory she got in FS. Both are studious magicians, so maybe a boost to research? Just a few ideas.

Just thinking about your comments, I' m considering if I should adjust the "Magic Circle" concept a bit... as you point out, there's three major figures in the Forest of Magic, so what if the three additional buildings you could get each represented a different character? One could be a "Doll Factory" that gave out promotions, another could be something that encouraged science/espionage like Marisa, and the third could be something boosting trade, like Kourindou...

 

[Kiefmaster99]

Just thinking about your comments, I' m considering if I should adjust the "Magic Circle" concept a bit... as you point out, there's three major figures in the Forest of Magic, so what if the three additional buildings you could get each represented a different character? One could be a "Doll Factory" that gave out promotions, another could be something that encouraged science/espionage like Marisa, and the third could be something boosting trade, like Kourindou...

Yeah, I would have one building represent each character. As for the UI, I was thinking more of a Mushroom Yard (as that's how Marisa's magic is powered), so perhaps make the Atelier only buildable on Forest and Jungle tiles. The flavour also fits in with them being the Forest of Magic and all. Then it can supply Mana, which can feed a building. Maybe 2->1.
Having Marisa's UB give bonuses to science and espionage makes sense, as well as Kourin's (though I'm more inclined to give a boost to gold; I'm not sure how domestic trade could be boosted with a building).

 

[bouncymischa]

Yeah, I would have one building represent each character. As for the UI, I was thinking more of a Mushroom Yard (as that's how Marisa's magic is powered), so perhaps make the Atelier only buildable on Forest and Jungle tiles. The flavour also fits in with them being the Forest of Magic and all. Then it can supply Mana, which can feed a building. Maybe 2->1.
Having Marisa's UB give bonuses to science and espionage makes sense, as well as Kourin's (though I'm more inclined to give a boost to gold; I'm not sure how domestic trade could be boosted with a building).

Well, I meant trade more in the sense of generating gold, as you say, although I suspect there are ways for it to trigger off of trade routes. (I wonder if it's possible for it to simply generate additional gold from Roads? They should count as Improvements, and a building can easily change the yield from an Improvement...)

I'm not entirely sure if you understood or not, but I wasn't planning on the Atelier being a UI. UI's are actually somewhat hard to implement, as I suspect any UI requires you to update the landmark system... which in turn leads to the farm crash bug. So as much as I'd love to make UIs, I'm shying away from them for the time being. It's possible BNW will fix the bug, though, with its plethora of new UIs.

So in the meantime I'm looking at the Atelier being a UB, that would replace either the Workshop or University. I figured it could produce extra food from forests (to reflect Marisa's constant collection of mushrooms), although as a University UB it could expand the +2 beakers from Jungles to Forests as well, as another way to reflect mushroom gathering. On the other hand, perhaps it's best to keep the Atelier as a Workshop replacement, and then use Marisa's "enhancement" to generate science and food from nearby forests and jungles -- perhaps calling it a "potions lab" or something.

I'm wondering a bit whether these "extra buildings" should be considered "expansions" to the Atelier -- i.e. you build an addition onto it to gain the additional functions -- or standalone buildings. As an "expansion", it'd need to be build in the same city as the Atelier. As a "standalone" building, you could build the new building in any city that needed it. The standalone concept works better for the original Magic Circles idea, as you could use Ateliers in core cities to support Warding Circles out on your periphery, but the newer version where the extra buildings reflect the characters more makes more sense as a kind of expansion, also linking them more tightly with the original UB. It becomes more a "selectable mode" UB, which is a somewhat interesting concept...

 

[Huitzil37]

I am pretty sure you can have a UI if it uses the same graphic as an existing improvement. Apolodog did it with the marsh lab thing, I actually plan to use the full-bloom Polder graphic as well for Yuuka (I have no idea what it will do, but come on, there's no way her unique build-thing won't be a large colorful field of flowers).

 

[bouncymischa]

I am pretty sure you can have a UI if it uses the same graphic as an existing improvement. Apolodog did it with the marsh lab thing, I actually plan to use the full-bloom Polder graphic as well for Yuuka (I have no idea what it will do, but come on, there's no way her unique build-thing won't be a large colorful field of flowers).

Oooooh, now that sounds awesome! Hmm... I'd be tempted to have it generate culture, myself, but yeah... surrounding your cities with flowers. :3

I'll admit, I haven't really tried messing around with UIs because of the whole landmark system thing. What you said makes sense, though, as I've tried adding new resources using existing resource graphics (i.e. using Uranium for Luboric), and it seemed to work fine while side-stepping the farm crash bug issue. On the other hand, I'm not really sure what graphic would work for a Mushroom Farm UI, and I'm still leaning towards the "enhanced building" mechanic. But I'll keep it in mind... I do want to experiment with UIs sometime. (A UI for the Moriya Shrine could be fun, if I could find a good graphic for it.)

 

[Huitzil37]

Maybe it could give culture. I figure the Flower Master of Four Seasons should be able to go for a culture victory, or for a "sadistically murder every other living thing on the planet" victory. Because that is sort of how Yuuka rolls.

 

[bouncymischa]

Maybe it could give culture. I figure the Flower Master of Four Seasons should be able to go for a culture victory, or for a "sadistically murder every other living thing on the planet" victory. Because that is sort of how Yuuka rolls.

Yeah, of the peaceful victories I see the culture victory as being the most appropriate. As well, since it IS a unique improvement, you could easily include some kind of combat bonus for fighting around them (like the Polynesians do with Maoi statues).

 

[Huitzil37]

Ugh, I still need to do, like, all of Eirin's dialogue. She's totally different from Cirno and Okuu, but I just kind of don't know where to start.

Also, I don't think anyone will recognize the "lunar landmark" city names because they are all in latin, so I need something else to replace it. Names of moon goddesses from various cultures? Any other suggestions?

Also also, I want to say this now so everyone knows it: If and when someone makes a Hakurei Shrine civ led by Reimu, her ability ought to be called "Highly Responsive to Prayers". I don't even care what it does but that ought to be the name.

 

[Kiefmaster99]

Ugh, I still need to do, like, all of Eirin's dialogue. She's totally different from Cirno and Okuu, but I just kind of don't know where to start.

You could use her in-game quotes as a base. Also, Eirin's dialogue from the Touhou Epic mod might give you some ideas, although they're of a different tone one might expect. Actually, that being said, all of the dialogue are crammed into one huge CIV4DiplomacyText.xml IIRC that takes forever to load. If you want, I can bundle all the individual diplo txts (e.g. diplo_eirin.txt) for all characters and upload them somewhere; I separated them for the translator I was working with.

 

[Huitzil37]

You could use her in-game quotes as a base. Also, Eirin's dialogue from the Touhou Epic mod might give you some ideas, although they're of a different tone one might expect. Actually, that being said, all of the dialogue are crammed into one huge CIV4DiplomacyText.xml IIRC that takes forever to load. If you want, I can bundle all the individual diplo txts (e.g. diplo_eirin.txt) for all characters and upload them somewhere; I separated them for the translator I was working with.

I used in-game quotes for Cirno and Okuu, but Eirin's seem... I dunno, a bit too generic? Like, she's intelligent, haughty and superior about it, but that's not quite enough to hang your hat on. I want more of the Inaba of the Moon/Inaba of the Earth character who pleasantly smiles while torturing her underlings (which I think would manifest itself in dealing with other civs as a really thick passive-aggressive tone), that sort of thing.

 

[Huitzil37]

Any thoughts on my other question, a moon-based theme to name cities by?

 

[bouncymischa]

Any thoughts on my other question, a moon-based theme to name cities by?

Not off-hand... I hadn't realized you were planning to use moon features for the Eientei cities, and had been considering using them for my "Lunarian Invasion" civ with Yorihime.

Does the latin seem that jarring? I didn't think it'd be that issue with my own Lunarian civ, but then again I was going for a stranger/more exotic feel with them. But it does give the Lunarians a somewhat unique feel/identity...?

 

[Huitzil37]

Yeah, I didn't like the Latin, and it didn't feel recognizable. If you think it works as more exotic for the Lunarians, that's fine. But still, what do I use?

Also, I am finally starting to push through Eirin's dialogue, after putting it off for so long.

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_LEADER_EIRIN_ATTACKED_1">
<Text>Oh, how cute. The earthbound primitive thinks it can outwit the Moon's genius.</Text>
</Row>

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_LEADER_EIRIN_DECLAREWAR_1">
<Text>You are a tumor on the body of the world, one I intend to excise.</Text>
</Row>

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_LEADER_EIRIN_DEFEATED_1">
<Text>Joke's on you, fool. Now that you destroyed Eientei, Princess Kaguya is your problem. Enjoy shoveling tortilla chips into her mouth for the next hundred thousand years!</Text>
</Row>

 

[bouncymischa]

Yeah, I didn't like the Latin, and it didn't feel recognizable. If you think it works as more exotic for the Lunarians, that's fine. But still, what do I use?

Also, I am finally starting to push through Eirin's dialogue, after putting it off for so long.

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_LEADER_EIRIN_ATTACKED_1">
<Text>Oh, how cute. The earthbound primitive thinks it can outwit the Moon's genius.</Text>
</Row>

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_LEADER_EIRIN_DECLAREWAR_1">
<Text>You are a tumor on the body of the world, one I intend to excise.</Text>
</Row>

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_LEADER_EIRIN_DEFEATED_1">
<Text>Joke's on you, fool. Now that you destroyed Eientei, Princess Kaguya is your problem. Enjoy shoveling tortilla chips into her mouth for the next hundred thousand years!</Text>
</Row>

Hmmm, that is a good question. I'll think on it a bit and see if any ideas come to mind. Your best bet might be to delve into mythology, like you said...

Ahhh, the dialogue. I think the defeated text is my favorite of the three so far. (Although I think the attacked text should be "the genius of the Moon" rather than "the Moon's genius"... just sounds better to me.) It's going to be a bit tricky doing the text for Keine, although I imagine her primary concern is safeguarding the Human Village, so most of the text will revolve around that. (I imagine her defeated text may end up being particularly tragic...)

 

[Kiefmaster99]

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_LEADER_EIRIN_DEFEATED_1">
<Text>Joke's on you, fool. Now that you destroyed Eientei, Princess Kaguya is your problem. Enjoy shoveling tortilla chips into her mouth for the next hundred thousand years!</Text>
</Row>

I like the quotes. One minor suggestion though. I would use a different food other than tortilla chips that's more common in Gensokyo. Mochi would work.

 

[Huitzil37]

I like the quotes. One minor suggestion though. I would use a different food other than tortilla chips that's more common in Gensokyo. Mochi would work.

Mochi has no connotation as a food for slackers and NEETs. "Tortilla chips" is already a compromise because I wanted to say "Doritos" like we're all thinking.

Also I decided to name her cities after famous sci-fi authors and directors. Heinlein, Verne
Asimov, Bradbury, Wells, Bergerac, Méliès, Ariosto, Kepler, Clarke, Lem, LeGuin, Bova, Lang, &#379;u&#322;awski, Niven, Ellison, Bester, Vonnegut, Lyndham. Now I just have to ask if I have to change their adjective from "Lunar", if that's too close to what mischa wants to use.

 

[bakudan00]

Mochi has no connotation as a food for slackers and NEETs. "Tortilla chips" is already a compromise because I wanted to say "Doritos" like we're all thinking.

Also I decided to name her cities after famous sci-fi authors and directors. Heinlein, Verne
Asimov, Bradbury, Wells, Bergerac, Méliès, Ariosto, Kepler, Clarke, Lem, LeGuin, Bova, Lang, &#379;u&#322;awski, Niven, Ellison, Bester, Vonnegut, Lyndham. Now I just have to ask if I have to change their adjective from "Lunar", if that's too close to what mischa wants to use.

How about Cup Ramen? It's the staple of NEETs in Japan as far as i know.

Also i would like to suggest their city name after named moon landscapes like craters, mountains, seas etc. But whichever works for you.

 

[Huitzil37]

That's what I originally had them named for, but the problem is all names of lunar landmarks are in Latin and they aren't easily identifiable for almost anyone. Even "nuclear disaster sites" was easier to pick up on.