That... holy that is brilliant. I love it.
The Touhou Mod Development Thread
- Thread starter bouncymischa
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That... holy that is brilliant. I love it.
bouncymischa
Synthetic Genie
It is a really good idea.
I've got the art assets for the Moriya Shrine working, so I'm going to start testing it soon. I'm still debating what to do for their colors, though. Currently I'm using red on purple, which looks really nice... but I suspect those colors may work better for Makai. Although I suppose with Makai I could maybe reduce the deep purple I'm using to a lighter lavender... hmm.
bouncymischa
Synthetic Genie
Well, I'm using Kanako as the leader for the Moriya Shrine. She's the one that at least appears publicly in charge -- Suwako is more "the power behind the throne", as it were.
bouncymischa
Synthetic Genie
Well, I'll admit to being a Kanako fan, which is one of the reasons I wanted to do the Moriya Shrine in the first place.
Still, there's no real hard and fast rule as to who should be the leader for a civ... particularly since, when it comes to Touhou, it's a bit hard to identify exactly what groups feel appropriate as "civilizations". With most of the other anime/game related civs I've seen, they're usually built up around a particular character as the leader... but when it comes to Gensokyo, I find myself leaning towards trying to identify particular power blocs or organizations as fodder for civ material. But deciding who to use as the leader for said groups can be tricky... if I had done the Tengu civ, for example, I would've been tempted to use Lord Tenma (the true leader of the tengu) instead of Aya, although Aya is more far more recognizable from the games.
It may still be interesting to do a Suwako civ at some point (since she did rule over her own people in the past). The trait would likely relate to the Mishaguji in some fashion, while the UU would probably reflect her use of steal weapons in the war against the Yamato.
As for Kanako's civ... currently, I've gotten nearly everything working. I'm quite pleased that the UU seems to be working perfectly, so I just need to figure out if the trait and UB are acceptable or not...
Still, there's no real hard and fast rule as to who should be the leader for a civ... particularly since, when it comes to Touhou, it's a bit hard to identify exactly what groups feel appropriate as "civilizations". With most of the other anime/game related civs I've seen, they're usually built up around a particular character as the leader... but when it comes to Gensokyo, I find myself leaning towards trying to identify particular power blocs or organizations as fodder for civ material.
But deciding who to use as the leader for said groups can be tricky... if I had done the Tengu civ, for example, I would've been tempted to use Lord Tenma (the true leader of the tengu) instead of Aya, although Aya is more far more recognizable from the games.It may still be interesting to do a Suwako civ at some point (since she did rule over her own people in the past). The trait would likely relate to the Mishaguji in some fashion, while the UU would probably reflect her use of steal weapons in the war against the Yamato.
As for Kanako's civ... currently, I've gotten nearly everything working. I'm quite pleased that the UU seems to be working perfectly, so I just need to figure out if the trait and UB are acceptable or not...
I meant, not just how fitting they are to leadership (really NEITHER Satori nor Okuu have much of that) but also how interesting they are to deal with. Compared to Satori, Kaguya, and Suwako, Okuu, Eirin and Kanako would create more conflict. And in a shellnut, that's what makes them more interesting to have as opponents.
Magma_Dragoon
Reploid
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I think the whisps in stage 6 were taking orders from Okuu. But yeah, Suika leading I guess is just for lack of a competent goblin.
Well it's an AU anyway, so what matters is taht there's a plausible situation taht could have happened with Suika as a leader. Just like Cirno's is "didn't get bored right away being the boss of their fairies in ending A-2 of Fairy Wars," and Okuu's is "told all the oni and hell-denizens that she had this super awesome sacred quest to remake the surface into a new Blazing Hell before she started blasting and melting things to accomplish that."
bouncymischa
Synthetic Genie
Well, as I said before, it's a fairly subjective thing. Everyone is going to have their own ideas how to approach the choice of leaders, and thus it'll ultimately come down to who the person creating the mod feels the most comfortable with.
For me, I chose to make the oni as a civilization first because the interplay between the oni, tengu, and human societies in Gensokyo felt very much like a Civilization game, where the oni held power over the tengu, but were ultimately defeated by the humans and retreated, leaving the tengu free to rise in power on their own. Plus, the oni are fairly prevalent in Japanese mythology, so they felt safer to approach as a first civ to try publishing -- they didn't necessarily have to be completely Touhou-related.
When it came to choosing a leader, though, the only real choices I had were between Suika and Yuugi. The tengu have Lord Tenma, and the Human Village has a mayor, but I don't think anyone's ever really been identified as a leader for the oni per se. The Four Devas may fall the closest in that regard, as the strongest of the oni. While Yuugi could've arguably been a workable leader, I think Suika has a couple of points in her favor:
a) Suika is more proactive. While Yuugi has largely remained in the Ancient City, Suika stayed on the surface, and later instigated an incident in order to try and track down her missing kin. Suika's willingness to go out there, interact with people, and cause trouble made her a bit more appealing, and the idea of building up a civilization from nothing seemed more along the lines of her powers than Yuugi's.
b) Suika is based on Shuten-douji, one of the greatest youkai of Japanese mythology, with Hoshiguma-douji being one of Shuten-douji's underlings. So from the perspective of Japanese mythology, at least, Suika was more appropriate as a "leader" than Yuugi.
So that was my perspective in choosing to use Suika as the leader of the oni, at least. It would've been interesting if I'd done a Tengu civilization, as I might've then decided to do a kitsune civilization using Ran, in order to parallel the three great youkai of Japan (Shuten-douji the oni, Emperor Shotoku the tengu, and Tamamo-no-Mae the kitsune).
Also, been playing Double Dealing Character tonight to celebrate the New Year with danmaku... so starting to consider the possibilities of a kobito civilization using the Shining Needle Castle...
For me, I chose to make the oni as a civilization first because the interplay between the oni, tengu, and human societies in Gensokyo felt very much like a Civilization game, where the oni held power over the tengu, but were ultimately defeated by the humans and retreated, leaving the tengu free to rise in power on their own. Plus, the oni are fairly prevalent in Japanese mythology, so they felt safer to approach as a first civ to try publishing -- they didn't necessarily have to be completely Touhou-related.
When it came to choosing a leader, though, the only real choices I had were between Suika and Yuugi. The tengu have Lord Tenma, and the Human Village has a mayor, but I don't think anyone's ever really been identified as a leader for the oni per se. The Four Devas may fall the closest in that regard, as the strongest of the oni. While Yuugi could've arguably been a workable leader, I think Suika has a couple of points in her favor:
a) Suika is more proactive. While Yuugi has largely remained in the Ancient City, Suika stayed on the surface, and later instigated an incident in order to try and track down her missing kin. Suika's willingness to go out there, interact with people, and cause trouble made her a bit more appealing, and the idea of building up a civilization from nothing seemed more along the lines of her powers than Yuugi's.
b) Suika is based on Shuten-douji, one of the greatest youkai of Japanese mythology, with Hoshiguma-douji being one of Shuten-douji's underlings. So from the perspective of Japanese mythology, at least, Suika was more appropriate as a "leader" than Yuugi.
So that was my perspective in choosing to use Suika as the leader of the oni, at least.
It would've been interesting if I'd done a Tengu civilization, as I might've then decided to do a kitsune civilization using Ran, in order to parallel the three great youkai of Japan (Shuten-douji the oni, Emperor Shotoku the tengu, and Tamamo-no-Mae the kitsune).Also, been playing Double Dealing Character tonight to celebrate the New Year with danmaku... so starting to consider the possibilities of a kobito civilization using the Shining Needle Castle...
Magma_Dragoon
Reploid
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The ability of fox and tanuki youkai to shapeshift into human form would suggest an espionage bonus of some sort...
bouncymischa
Synthetic Genie
While kitsune are traditionally shapeshifters that can impersonate people and infiltrate human society, Ran doesn't quite fall into the mold... so I'm not sure how fitting that trait would be for a kitsune civ if using Ran (Gensokyo's most famous kitsune) as the leader...
On the other hand, Mamizou did spend a long period of time in the outside world until Nue fetched her to help fight against Miko, so it'd probably be a good trait to use with her. In fact, it'd be particularly interesting since Huitzil and I had discussed having Miko be oriented towards the diplomatic game, currying favor with city-states by completing quests. If Mamizou had an espionage bonus (both in the number of and quality of spies), she could thus compete against Miko in terms of city-state influence...
I think I'll add Mamizou to my "to do" list... I've been reading Forbidden Scrollery lately, so she's been on my mind, and while working on the color schemes for civs I've noticed the Gensokyo mods so far don't have many "green" civs, which Mamizou could nicely fill. (I'd probably due her as brown on green, although since I'd want to use a leaf icon green on brown would be tempting...) The trait would likely be fairly easy to code (most spy adjustments can be done through free buildings), so I'd just need to work out a UU and UB/UI for her.
After fiddling with SDK for a while, I've started getting ideas of a Touhou faction myself, though I'm not too sure whether or not I'll actually have the time or resources to go through with it. The basic gist of it is a bunch of human outsiders, saved from certain youkai consumption and led by Rika, everybody's favorite engineering prodigy, stationed on a certain bridge near a certain shrine. The fact that most outsiders are usually from relativity modern countries would mean that the faction would be technology heavy, while also production heavy fitting in with Rika's theme as a mechanical genius.
<Title Pending>
Ability: Mechanized Prodigy - Manufacturies Produce an additional 8 Science. Great engineers are earned 50% faster. Obtain a great engineer with the passing of each era.
Current idea for civ ability. The intent is that Rika begins the game being a relatively weak adversary, but once her ability kicks in, steadily and rapidly becomes both a scientific and productive powerhouse, propelling her into the late game where her UUs come in:
UU 1:
Evil Eye Sigma (Replaces Helicopter Gunship)
Strength: 90
Movement: 5
Base Cost: 525
Technology: Electronics
Resource Used: Aluminum
The original flying tank, and the reason why you should learn to fear the outsiders during late game. Being both stronger and available earlier then the unit it replaces, EES gives Rika the ability to pretty much own warfare of the Atomic Era on a silver platter, especially in the department of mechanized warfare. On the flipside, its also slightly slower and more expensive to produce, but that's partially offset by the fact that Rika likely has several manufacturies up by then. Though the chances of running into one are comically unlikely as per standard, EES also counters the GDR in the Information age, while remaining ineffective against Mechanized Infantry and weak to X-COM Squads and Mobile SAMs.
UU 2:
Shrine Tank (Replaces Landship)
Strength: 60
Movement: 4
Base Cost: 250
Technology: Combustion
Becomes Obsolete With: Laser
Upgrades Into: Tank
Note: Starts with Blitz
Simply put, the Shrine Tank is a cheaper and resourceless Landship, with the added bonus of blitz off the bat, allowing Rika to field a massive swarm of these weapons come modern era to overwhelm her adversaries. They remain useful into the atomic era as cheap damage sponges which can stall and block things.
Other notes:
A possibility is giving some units unique models, but I'm still trying to get such software to work properly in the first place.
Rika has two UUs rather then a UU and a UB/UI because I can't really think of any that would suit her or the outsiders. The current intent is to make them scientific and relatively passive until late game, where they pull a 360 Gandhi-style and start using their UUs to steamroll the opposition.
<Title Pending>
Ability: Mechanized Prodigy - Manufacturies Produce an additional 8 Science. Great engineers are earned 50% faster. Obtain a great engineer with the passing of each era.
Current idea for civ ability. The intent is that Rika begins the game being a relatively weak adversary, but once her ability kicks in, steadily and rapidly becomes both a scientific and productive powerhouse, propelling her into the late game where her UUs come in:
UU 1:
Evil Eye Sigma (Replaces Helicopter Gunship)
Strength: 90
Movement: 5
Base Cost: 525
Technology: Electronics
Resource Used: Aluminum
The original flying tank, and the reason why you should learn to fear the outsiders during late game. Being both stronger and available earlier then the unit it replaces, EES gives Rika the ability to pretty much own warfare of the Atomic Era on a silver platter, especially in the department of mechanized warfare. On the flipside, its also slightly slower and more expensive to produce, but that's partially offset by the fact that Rika likely has several manufacturies up by then. Though the chances of running into one are comically unlikely as per standard, EES also counters the GDR in the Information age, while remaining ineffective against Mechanized Infantry and weak to X-COM Squads and Mobile SAMs.
UU 2:
Shrine Tank (Replaces Landship)
Strength: 60
Movement: 4
Base Cost: 250
Technology: Combustion
Becomes Obsolete With: Laser
Upgrades Into: Tank
Note: Starts with Blitz
Simply put, the Shrine Tank is a cheaper and resourceless Landship, with the added bonus of blitz off the bat, allowing Rika to field a massive swarm of these weapons come modern era to overwhelm her adversaries. They remain useful into the atomic era as cheap damage sponges which can stall and block things.
Other notes:
A possibility is giving some units unique models, but I'm still trying to get such software to work properly in the first place.
Rika has two UUs rather then a UU and a UB/UI because I can't really think of any that would suit her or the outsiders. The current intent is to make them scientific and relatively passive until late game, where they pull a 360 Gandhi-style and start using their UUs to steamroll the opposition.
bouncymischa
Synthetic Genie
The trait might be a little overly powerful in this incarnation -- mostly getting a free GE each era. I think it's more common to be gifted a free GP when you reach a particular technology (for example, Babylon gets their free GS with Writing).
I could see it just giving Rika a free GE at, say, Machinery?
That perhaps sounds more reasonable, making her akin to a production version of Babylon.
Magma_Dragoon
Reploid
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- May 10, 2008
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I've heard it hypothesized that Yumemi was Renko's physics professor, and either Mari got Yumemi interested in magic or the other way around. So they could be a sciency civ.
Yet before I get into designing stuff myself, I'll see if I can't get some of Touhou Epic's assets converted some way or another into Civ V. For now, I'm attempting to borrow a couple of fairies (I hope you folks don't mind, though this is more of a test then anything else as the Civ I'm designing doesn't use faeries) and trying to rig them to either the Gatling Gun itself (if I can figure out how to add a GG to the model) or an Archer unit for Cirno's Spring Herald. Yeah, it's not perfect, but I sadly know not how to actually get the animations themselves through, so it'll be a placeholder until someone more knowledgeable in the field gets a crack at it. Besides, there's something inherently funny with faeries manning a Gatling Gun :lameexcuse:.
