The Twelfth of July

[anarchywrksbest]

Friday is the day of the great Twelfth Marches of the Orange Order here in Northern Ireland, I know some of you living in America, Europe and even the rest of the UK have somefunny ideas about what goes on here in Ulster.

So here a place for you to post what you think about The Orange Order and I will tell you if your opinion are correcor based on hearsay and tabloid journalism. Go on say whta you want....

 

[Greadius]

The 12th of July is also my birthday


Sorry, completely off topic. Well, not completely... the thread was title the 12th of July

Uhm... honestly, I've never heard of any marches on my birthday (other than protests).
Can you give us a quick synopsis?

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Actually, I have never heard of the Orange Order.... More information available?

 

[napoleon526]

Can you give us a quick synopsis?

The Orangemen like to march through Catholic neighborhoods, and vice versa. This leads to lots of riots with police.

 

[CurtSibling]

In Glasgow they have these stupid nazi-like orange marches that bring traffic to a standstill.

What is the point of it? Most people here couldn't care less about the events of the 1600's.

Another example of humans corrupting their religion into a hate campaign!

These people should have their heads examined.

 

[philippe]

I agree with curtsibling here.

 

[duke o' york]

In Northern Ireland the Orange marchers declare that they have a traditional right to march along the Garvaghy Road in Portadown, a predominantly Catholic neighbourhood to commemorate the victory of William of Orange's (Protestant) troops over the (Catholic) Irish at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.

Yet for the last five years these marches have been banned by the authorities so surely not marching should now be traditional?
The English had a tradition of invading Scotland every few years and beating up/being beaten up by the Scots, but we don't do that sort of thing any more. Fortunately. Traditionally we should have troops occupying Calais and Bordeaux, but we don't. Tradition can be a valuable link to the past, but you have to select your traditions carefully and try to avoid inflammatory ones like those listed above. The Orangemen may have the right to walk up the Garvaghy Road, but the law says that they cannot. While such people still adhere to their old traditions and customs then the prospect of social harmony in Northern Ireland is distant.

 

[starlifter]

The English had a tradition of invading Scotland every few years and beating up/being beaten up by the Scots, but we don't do that sort of thing any more.

ROTFLHIP!!

(my new acronym for Rolling On The Floor Howling In Pain!!)

That is so funny! And what a tradition.

Does anyone know about a guy name John Talbot in the 1400's? He had some traditions of busting heads, until his head was literally busted (when he was in his 70's) attempting to lead his army againt the French in the final battle of the 100 Years War. (Coincidentally, I just posted about that in the WH Forum a couple days ago).

Those in society must follow the laws, and if the law says no march, then either no march, or work peacefully and legally to change the law.

It is funny that right now, as we speak, they are showing a long series of PBS documentaries about the Catholic/Protestant history of the 1970's, 80's, and 90's in Ireland. Quite an unnecessary mess, I would say. It would almost be comical were it not for people's right being trampled in the conflict, not to mention the beating and murders.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Yet for the last five years these marches have been banned by the authorities so surely not marching should now be traditional?
The English had a tradition of invading Scotland every few years and beating up/being beaten up by the Scots, but we don't do that sort of thing any more. Fortunately. Traditionally we should have troops occupying Calais and Bordeaux, but we don't. Tradition can be a valuable link to the past, but you have to select your traditions carefully and try to avoid inflammatory ones like those listed above. The Orangemen may have the right to walk up the Garvaghy Road, but the law says that they cannot. While such people still adhere to their old traditions and customs then the prospect of social harmony in Northern Ireland is distant.

Interesting.

The Scots/English conflict was a war of racial differences.

The Catholic/Protestant rivalry is purely based on theological differences.

Two entirely different chains of disharmony, but with one thing in common.

At the core there are dumb-headed humans arguing over who is best.
Arrogance and stubborn ignorance is a huge factor in any battle over traditions...

What hope is there when young people are being brought up to hate?

 

[ComradeDavo]

Yeh, same as phillipe, I agree with CurtSibling.

 

[sysyphus]

Originally posted by CurtSibling


Interesting.

The Scots/English conflict was a war of racial differences.

The Catholic/Protestant rivalry is purely based on theological differences.

Two entirely different chains of disharmony, but with one thing in common.

At the core there are dumb-headed humans arguing over who is best.
Arrogance and stubborn ignorance is a huge factor in any battle over traditions...

What hope is there when young people are being brought up to hate?

Well said. It forms the basis of pretty much every conflict in the world, now and in the past.

Like I said on another thread, these people are thugs who like to find any excuse to get people to fight.

 

[Wolfe Tone]

Originally posted by CurtSibling


Interesting.

The Scots/English conflict was a war of racial differences.

The Catholic/Protestant rivalry is purely based on theological differences.

Two entirely different chains of disharmony, but with one thing in common.

At the core there are dumb-headed humans arguing over who is best.
Arrogance and stubborn ignorance is a huge factor in any battle over traditions...

What hope is there when young people are being brought up to hate?

You place all the blame on religious difference. There is more to it than that. It is about who should govern 6 counties of Ireland. Religion comes into to it because most Nationalists are Catholic while most loyalists are protestants.

On the subject of marches, I believe they should all be banned no matter who is marching. How would the loyalist community react if we marched through their areas waving tricolours, holding banners with Patrick Pearse on them and having bands play Repulican balads. I very much doubt they would like it.

Another thing the police deal with riots in totally different ways. If it is loyalists rioting then they may fire 3 or 4 plastic bullets, but if it is nationalists protesting then they fire 30+ bullets.

(OK I relealise I am probablty a little biased)

 

[anarchywrksbest]

"On the subject of marches, I believe they should all be banned no matter who is marching. How would the loyalist community react if we marched through their areas waving tricolours, holding banners with Patrick Pearse on them and having bands play Repulican balads. I very much doubt they would like it."

I would like it very much if it meant that the Orange Order could be allowed to march in peace. And the RUC to a great job, dozens are injured every week trying to hold back the rioters and people still complain about them....

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Let's just say I am completely on the side of the nationalists in this circumstance...

 

[anarchywrksbest]

You believe the propaganda then.....

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by anarchywrksbest
You believe the propaganda then.....

No, I've actually been there, seen them in action, have good friends who still live there, and various things such as that...
One does have an idea of what one is talking about.

 

[anarchywrksbest]

Yeah well I live here and when I was younger the Orange marches used to be great and everybody had a great time with the music and the parades but now because of the protests it has been ruined a bit.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by anarchywrksbest
Yeah well I live here and when I was younger the Orange marches used to be great and everybody had a great time with the music and the parades but now because of the protests it has been ruined a bit.

>cough/scoff< Maybe from your perspective!
I'm delighted to make your acquaintance, anyway, Reverend Paisley.

They are a cause of tension, and have been throughout the Troubles. If a true equitable solution is sought, and wanted, then it requires the cessation of such foolish, prevocative relics, at least through Catholic areas.

 

[Wolfe Tone]

Well I live here to and I am sure everybody had a great time especially the people of the Garvachy road who were trapped in there houses and had watch Orange men gloating about a battle that happend a long time ago. I wonder what would happen if next Easter nationalists want to march through some loyalist areas with song Boys of the old Brigade playing as loudly as possible (I love that song)

Darkshade how about you send some of your legions of terror to help us out, or are they already here j/k

 

[anarchywrksbest]

Hey i'm know Ian Paisley, more of a UUP man.

Some people seem to think that Catholics don't do anything to provoke Protestants...