The two new policy trees

[fat_tonle]

Exploration would seem to be useless right now compared to the potential perks of the other trees. Naval powers will obviously go for it, but not many pure naval civs right now. That could change depending on what happens with the new civs. We also don't know how much archaeology will play into culture/tourism, but I don't know if that's the tree culture people will lean toward, as opposed to commerce and patronage. Probably piety as well, plus the Freedom Idealogy.

There needs to be massive bonuses. I don't want it to be an honor tree that only got buffed accordingly ten or so patches too late.

Opener: Explorers and/or Caravels (available at Astronomy) gain +2 movement. Finding new CS's yield 5X gold gifts (15 to 75) and (30 to 150).

Policies

1. Discovering new Natural Wonders produce gold yield (Spain gets double), and double happiness for discovery (Spain gets +4 happiness). Tile yields produce 1.5X within borders (3x with Spain)

2. Intercontinental cities produce regular maintenance, -2X happiness (something to encourage intercontinental settling/conquering or colonization).

3. Archaelogy buff

4. 1+ movement for all naval units plus Great Admiral

5. Coastal cities provide 25% production bonus

Finisher: Free world map of every other civs current world vision (Don't know about this one, but something massive, even though I am not sure that is that much of an advantage anyhow)

You can also ripoff the Ottoman UA by having a policy that allows you to capture barbarian ships only, or to get gold after Naval battles (even though Honor already does that).

 

[Buccaneer]

My favorite 4x game in the 1990s was Conquest of the New World and I loved how exploration was handled in that game. You had to scout every square inch of territory if you wanted to get the most out of it but they gave you great incentives and rewards for doing so.

 

[fuzzatron717]

I don't know why some people suggest exploration must only be for the navy exploring land might be in there too which is most likely like scouts will get +1 sight and/or forests/jungles -0.5 movement cost.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I actually suspect that exploration has far more bonuses than just exploring things. For example, it could have bonuses to archaeologists.

A bit off topic, but, if they take the naval ones from commerce, I hope they add "free trade" to Commerce. I hate that the tree ends with protectionism.

 

[kamex]

I think the Exploration tree is probably going to be a renaissance era tree and it probably means that there are new scout-line units like the Explorer later in the game.

I'd like this, though I'm guessing it would only be really useful on Terra style maps; on continents everything would be already settled...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I can guess at some of the policies in the Exploration tree.

For instance:
+1 movement to caravels and scouts ( and others if there are more)
1 culture and gold for each tile revealed
Free survivalism promotion for ever scout-type unit and supply for caravels
Gold bonus when meeting a civ or city-state for the first time
Extra happiness for finding natural wonders

 

[AriochIV]

I actually suspect that exploration has far more bonuses than just exploring things. For example, it could have bonuses to archaeologists.

Yes, it seems logical that detection of an Antiquity Site will require line of sight, and that's as good a reason as any to have Scout replacements later in the game.

Though such a replacement could be the Archaeologist unit itself.

 

[JanghanHong]

Someone in "Suggest a civ thread" suggested that Portugal could do well with a conceptually similar UA as Spain, they would gain something like +3 gold per tiles revealed, and each city states would give double gold when they are first discovered, I really liked that idea.

 

[fat_tonle]

I actually suspect that exploration has far more bonuses than just exploring things. For example, it could have bonuses to archaeologists.

A bit off topic, but, if they take the naval ones from commerce, I hope they add "free trade" to Commerce. I hate that the tree ends with protectionism.

What about Capitalism? I don't think that is in as of yet.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, that would make sense too. The only difficult part is that Communism isn't currently incompatible with the Commerce branch.

 

[fat_tonle]

Yeah, that would make sense too. The only difficult part is that Communism isn't currently incompatible with the Commerce branch.

Eh.... good point. Still would belong there one would think. I would just add it in regardless. But make the bonus negligible in that it wouldn't necessarily jive well the Order Policies. Sort of like how the Commerce tree is split now with one branch going to Merchant Navy and the other branch going down to Protectionism. Now the Merchant Navy branch can go to something else. Order would favor the other half. Or Capitalism can be incorporated into Freedom. Should be a policy though.

 

[kingchris20]

This has an important implication: the new expansion will either require Gods & Kings, or else include Gods and Kings, since it is not possible to remove culture from the piety tree without the G&K religion system.

ahh good point, I like that though, build on what you have going! .....guess it could upset some people, but hey, at this point G&K is a must have for civ V, I couldn't imagine playing without it!

 

[fat_tonle]

Sell it as a package. Base game +2 expansions for 59.99, or both expansions together for 39.99 without the base game.

 

[SuperWaffle247]

Could be why they just pushed the Civ V Gold Edition, to prep people for Brave New World requiring earlier DLC (ie G&K)

 

[teakbois]

maybe something like this?

Exploration tree:
Opener: scout units can move freely behind enemy territory, gain two bonuses per goodie hut, free scout

+1 movement and +1 sight for all scout units

Bonus for city state discovery (depending on type of city state)

+1 happiness per civilization discovered and free golden age upon discovering every civilization

+1 movement to naval units and +science for harbor and seaport

free technology upon circumnavigating the globe


finisher: archaeology related

 

[Calouste]

maybe something like this?

Exploration tree:
Opener: scout units can move freely behind enemy territory, gain two bonuses per goodie hut, free scout

+1 movement and +1 sight for all scout units

Bonus for city state discovery (depending on type of city state)

+1 happiness per civilization discovered and free golden age upon discovering every civilization

+1 movement to naval units and +science for harbor and seaport

free technology upon circumnavigating the globe


finisher: archaeology related

I think the exact bonuses are going to be hard to predict, because the balance of the game is going to change quite a bit. No more gold from rivers and apparently lower policy costs are two of the big ones. What I do think we will see with the Exploration tree is that the opener and the first two or three policies will be helpful at the beginning of the game, and the finisher and the last two or three policies are going to be more useful towards the late Middle Ages to Renaissance era, the European "Age of Exploration". Your suggestion of +1 science for harbor and seaport would be an example of the latter.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Yeah, that would make sense too. The only difficult part is that Communism isn't currently incompatible with the Commerce branch.

Black cat, white cat...

 

[fat_tonle]

maybe something like this?

Exploration tree:
Opener: scout units can move freely behind enemy territory, gain two bonuses per goodie hut, free scout

+1 movement and +1 sight for all scout units

Bonus for city state discovery (depending on type of city state)

+1 happiness per civilization discovered and free golden age upon discovering every civilization

+1 movement to naval units and +science for harbor and seaport

free technology upon circumnavigating the globe


finisher: archaeology related

Horribly underpowered. I think buffing scouts for a tree that will probably come in the Renaissance does nothing. Have to think Liberty/Tradition/Honor are still the play early in the game. I think Piety and Aesthetics go classical. Patronage and Commerce go Medieval. Exploration/Freedom go Renaissance, although I can see Exploration opening at Medieval.

 

[ahawk]

The Exploration tree probably means that exploration is going to be harder (I was never a fan of being able to contact all other civs in the BCs), other wise it would be fairly useless on a Pangea. So my guesses are that:
1) You can't build Scouts any more. The ability to build Scouts is now granted by opening the Exploration tree. (And you maybe get a free Scout as well, depending on balancing.)
2) The happiness granted for the discovery of Natural Wonders will now only be granted by a policy in the exploration tree.
3) Goody huts will give lower yields and/or are less visible (for example, you will only see them if your unit is in an adjacent tile) unless you adapt a certain Exploration policy.
4) The +1 Sight/Movement for Naval + Free Admiral that is now in Commerce will be the closer for the Exploration tree.

Obvious civs to adapt this tree: Arabia, Polynesia, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal (if they're in)

This is about what I would imagine, too, and I couldn't have said it better.

The only area where I'm not sure is about not being able to build scouts without the exploration SP for them (presumably, the opener). That would be something which there really isn't any precedent for: one can get missionaries without Piety, can get workers without the Liberty SP for them, can get a Great General without the Honor or Autocracy trees, etc. Hence, I imagine scouts will still be able to be built freely, but I bet that exploration will have a SP that buffs them (like with extra movement, akin to the Great Admiral boosts that may very well get thrown in with exploration, though those boosts could be shifted to Autocracy or even Honor, too, in my opinion.) It would be a little jarring to suddenly not have open access to such an early unit that some people prioritize getting.

But otherwise, I agree that happiness from natural wonders should be limited to having an Exploration policy (or, in the very least, that Exploration should increase the happiness by 1 for finding a nw).

And goody-hut yields should definitely be less if you aren't running exploration. I'm always amazed that, currently, even in Emperor games, I tend to get a free tech from a ruin in 50% of my games on that level. Even just 20 culture is a big boost. And an extra pop or a 60 faith ruin is ridiculous in many ways. So, hopefully free techs and extra pop will be limited to Exploration being active when you hit a ruin. Along with this, perhaps Exploration could include an SP where barb encampments will sometimes not yield gold, but will operate as a goody-hut instead. It would have to be balanced carefully, but this way there'd be more chance to pop goody huts than in the first 30 turns or so.

 

[Calouste]

This is about what I would imagine, too, and I couldn't have said it better.

The only area where I'm not sure is about not being able to build scouts without the exploration SP for them (presumably, the opener). That would be something which there really isn't any precedent for: one can get missionaries without Piety, can get workers without the Liberty SP for them, can get a Great General without the Honor or Autocracy trees, etc. Hence, I imagine scouts will still be able to be built freely, but I bet that exploration will have a SP that buffs them (like with extra movement, akin to the Great Admiral boosts that may very well get thrown in with exploration, though those boosts could be shifted to Autocracy or even Honor, too, in my opinion.) It would be a little jarring to suddenly not have open access to such an early unit that some people prioritize getting.

But otherwise, I agree that happiness from natural wonders should be limited to having an Exploration policy (or, in the very least, that Exploration should increase the happiness by 1 for finding a nw).

And goody-hut yields should definitely be less if you aren't running exploration. I'm always amazed that, currently, even in Emperor games, I tend to get a free tech from a ruin in 50% of my games on that level. Even just 20 culture is a big boost. And an extra pop or a 60 faith ruin is ridiculous in many ways. So, hopefully free techs and extra pop will be limited to Exploration being active when you hit a ruin. Along with this, perhaps Exploration could include an SP where barb encampments will sometimes not yield gold, but will operate as a goody-hut instead. It would have to be balanced carefully, but this way there'd be more chance to pop goody huts than in the first 30 turns or so.

Well, you can still explore with Warriors, it is just not going to be as efficient as exploring with Scouts.